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Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#96801: Jul 20th 2015 at 3:21:33 AM

[up]Am I overly paranoid in thinking that one of Sanders' opponents put that hashtag into action in order to make sure that African Americans stay home instead of voting?

I mean, Sanders' hasn't been talking much directly about racial issues, but his policies would greatly benefit the minorities.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#96803: Jul 20th 2015 at 8:08:33 AM

This Twitter Storify slideshow is a pretty good summation of the issue many black people have with Sanders and the Democratic party in general. Quinn Murphy's words are especially resonant.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#96804: Jul 20th 2015 at 8:18:09 AM

Donald Trump is a beautiful trainwreck to behold.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#96805: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:11:04 AM

Bernie has a laser focus on economic issues, and it's been argued, even by people close to him who are supporters, that he sees economic injustice as "the real issue" and that racial equality will only come about after tackling economic equality.

Problem is, to black people and all other people of color who are getting arrested in disproportionate rates, who are approached differently and more harshly by police and the courts, who are thrown out of school more often for minor offenses, who are profiled as likely to be criminals regardless of who they are or where they go, who get their resumes or job applications tossed out offhand for having a "black" name, or live with cops like these throwing around texts like this

"We got two blacks at my boys [sic] school and they are brother and sister! There cause dad works for the school district and I am watching them like hawks."

In response to a text asking "Do you celebrate quanza [sic] at your school?" Furminger wrote: "Yeah we burn the cross on the field! Then we celebrate Whitemas."

"Its [sic] worth every penny to live here [Walnut Creek] away from the savages."

"My wife has 2 friends over that don't know each other the cool one says to me get me a drink nigger not knowing the other is married to one just happened right now LMFAO."

"White power."

In response to a text saying "Niggers should be spayed," Furminger wrote "I saw one an hour ago with 4 kids."

"Cross burning lowers blood pressure! I did the test myself!"

In response to a text saying "All niggers must fucking hang," Furminger wrote "Ask my 6 year old what he thinks about Obama."

"I hate to tell you this but my wife friend [sic] is over with their kids and her husband is black! If [sic] is an Attorney but should I be worried?" Furminger's friend, an SFPD officer, responded: "Get ur pocket gun. Keep it available in case the monkey returns to his roots. Its [sic] not against the law to put an animal down." Furminger responded, "Well said!"

In response to a text from another SFPD officer regarding the promotion of a black officer to sergeant, Furminger wrote: "Fuckin nigger."

the long term goal of solving economic inequality doesn't solve the reality of their lives in the meantime. It doesn't solve the day to day problems of their lives. And even if tomorrow a switch was miraculously thrown that ended the massive economic problems this country has, do you think that would solve issues like police profiling, or the hiring gap that exists between equally qualified black and white people? Because I for one, don't think so.

Bernie's got what I believe are the right answers to a lot of the country's problems, but is a bit weak on race issues, not because he doesn't want racial equality, but because he seems blind to the special measures that need to be taken to combat the current and very entrenched inequality.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#96806: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:13:47 AM

Thing is that one of the most efficient manners to modify people's behaviors is the financial one.

Try to cajole, coerce or convince anyone in whatever way of what the right thing is to do, that no amount of education will do it. Threathen their pockets, however, and they will immediately change their mind.

With a more equal distribution of wealth, it would no longer be worth it to treat black people like crap because their economical power would not be negligible to individuals. Not to mention with more wealth they can have better access to education, and that leads to even further stuff.

edited 20th Jul '15 9:15:13 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#96807: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:19:31 AM

I can see why someone in his position would want to de-emphasize race as a political rallying flag. By refusing to do so, he implicitly rejects the idea of turning the conflict into a culture war of black versus white or urban versus rural. Poor versus rich is a lot 'safer' as a staging point for a political campaign.

I don't know if I want to say it's 'right' or not on a moral level, or whether there even is a right or wrong when it comes to that level of political pageantry, but I can see the tactical sense in it.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#96808: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:25:14 AM

I think his is the weakness of academic liberalism, that we boil everything down to policies and how they will change society instead of focusing on populist issues.

If someone replies to "race is a huge problem in this country" with "no, it's all economic," it's not going to get a good response.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#96809: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:27:16 AM

Fundamentally, running a political campaign on race issues is a fast track to losing the support of some portion of your base. However, Sanders should at least give a nod to them if he expects to win the primary, because Democrats need turnout in 2016 not just for the White House, but also to have a shot at reclaiming the Senate.

edited 20th Jul '15 9:28:07 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#96810: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:28:42 AM

At the end of the day Sanders still has to win. It doesn't matter if he makes these things a campaign issue if he torpedoes his chances at getting elected to do it. Unless he's said or done things in the past that show he has no interest in helping minorities I don't think this is a big issue.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#96811: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:30:02 AM

Entirely on race issues, yeah, because the majority is still white who simply don't have the frame of reference to care as much as minorities would. But the crucial thing for Democrats to win elections is to get good minority turnout, so you need to embrace racial politics to an extent.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#96812: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:32:02 AM

I'm not saying he should ignore these issues for the entire campaign. I think he should wait and see if he wins the nomination before pushing too hard.

edited 20th Jul '15 9:32:27 AM by Kostya

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#96814: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:34:57 AM

You think these people will ever realize they're actually the biggest recruiters and supporters ISIS has?

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#96815: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:36:24 AM

[up][up]Because that worked so well in World War Two with the Japanese? /sigh

And they weren't even a threat!

edited 20th Jul '15 9:36:42 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#96816: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:39:00 AM

Right, and the liberals are the Nazis.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#96817: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:43:59 AM

He is the liberal, though. He was in the Democratic nomination for president in 2004 and was a critic of the Bush administration.

The difference is that there is no "conflict," so it's not like we can just pick up anyone of questionable loyalty and put them in "until the war is over," radical islam could be a threat for the next forty years or more.

I don't know what the right policy is to deal with this, but it sure as hell isn't that.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#96818: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:48:01 AM

The conflict, such as it is, is extremely broad, encompassing politics, culture, religion, ideology, and economics, and cannot be resolved with police and spies and guns in the way that simple-minded folk might wish. Heck, even I've had thoughts like that — wouldn't it be great if we could X, where X usually involves lots of bombs or very high walls? But then I think about it and realize how unfeasible such things are.

edited 20th Jul '15 9:48:54 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#96819: Jul 20th 2015 at 9:50:29 AM

Even if we were at war with a clearly defined enemy with a clearly defined duration of conflict, preventative, preemptive imprisonment is not an appropriate way to deal with critics of the state. The fact that he actually thought that was a good idea to say in public astounds me.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#96820: Jul 20th 2015 at 10:03:18 AM

He is the liberal, though. He was in the Democratic nomination for president in 2004 and was a critic of the Bush administration.

This is a very minor point, but Clark is less a liberal than a centrist left out of the Republican's hard turn to the right. Here's a quote from him on the subject of why he changed his affiliation from independent to Democrat during the era of the Iraq War: "I was pro-affirmative action, I was pro-choice, I was pro-education... I'm pro-health care... I realized I was either going to be the loneliest Republican in America or I was going to be a happy Democrat."

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#96821: Jul 20th 2015 at 10:25:49 AM

To comment on my own post. I added the parenthesis because while Clark seemed to be framing his idea in terms of imprisoning American Muslims who express radical views and call for violence but have not yet taken violent actions (itself obviously illegal and troubling, but sort of morally understandable), it seems like a "dog whistle" way of calling for all American Muslims to be sent to internment camps.

Mr.Didact Keep Hope Alive from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Naked on a bearskin rug, playing the saxophone
Keep Hope Alive
#96822: Jul 20th 2015 at 3:42:48 PM

Unsurprisingly I don't see anyone calling to lock up radical fundamentalist conservatives who are more dangerous to the U.S.

Stand Fast, Stand Strong, Stand Together
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#96823: Jul 20th 2015 at 5:04:53 PM

Some of the same people who defended the libelous Swiftboating John Kerry was subjected to in 04 are now jumping to defend McCain from Trump. If anything Trump's remarks were far tamer than those swift boat liars.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/20/politics/jeb-bush-swift-boat-veterans/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#96824: Jul 20th 2015 at 7:48:41 PM

Bernie's got what I believe are the right answers to a lot of the country's problems, but is a bit weak on race issues, not because he doesn't want racial equality, but because he seems blind to the special measures that need to be taken to combat the current and very entrenched inequality.

Except those problems you mentioned aren't the sort of things politicians have the ability to solve. The government can't make people not be assholes.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#96825: Jul 20th 2015 at 8:00:21 PM

Right, but the policies that will help curb the assholes' ability to act will have an effect quicker than the policies that will curb the number of assholes altogether. "Black Lives Matter" type legislation will do more for a young black man today, while "no more inequality" legislation could do something for that young black man's grandchild, perhaps, at least as it regards race.


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