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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
For Zimmerman? By the letter of the law it probably would be justifiable but I still blame Zimmerman for the entire situation because he chose to follow Martin after he was told that it wasn't necessary. If he hadn't done that then Martin would be alive today. Zimmerman had the power in that scenario since he had a gun and I feel he abused that power to some degree.
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When someone attacks you with violence, that is a threat, and you are justified in defending yourself.
edited 15th Jul '13 8:42:45 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Regarding at least Sweden's jury system, it's actually a bit interesting. See, sitting together with the trained judges is civilian judges (Nämndemän) whom are chosen by the municipality after the elections, and are therefore most often members in a political court. In practice, their votes don't make much of a difference, but it's still an interesting part of Swedish law. But yes, at least in Sweden the idea does not exist that one should be judged by a jury of ones peers*, rather one should be judged by the product of the community's electoral choices. It's thinking along the same line, but in a radically different context. ADDENDUM: I could imagine it's basically the same in Finland, and broadly the same in the rest of the European North.
- There is one exception to this rule, and that is in cases regarding Freedom of Press, which for historical reasons is uniquely constructed. There on is judged by a jury of ones peers.
There isn't anything wrong with following somebody who's in your community and looks suspicious. If Zimmerman walked up to him and pointed a gun at him and told him to leave and then shot him when he refused, I would agree with you. But the fact that Martin attacked him leaves too many open questions to just outright blame Zimmerman.
Why did Martin attack him? If Zimmerman is at the wrong here, then what did he do that justifies a violent reaction from Martin? Following him? Is monitoring someone you don't trust around your home a felony now? Why is it okay that Martin attacked him, and why should Zimmerman have just allowed himself to be murdered?
edited 15th Jul '13 8:45:25 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Ultimately this boils down to two things.
1. Zimmerman was told that the police didn't need Martin followed.
2. Zimmerman could have stayed in his car rather than following Martin on foot.
Had Zimmerman acted differently in either of those two things then both men would be alive right now and we wouldn't have to deal with this. Also if you follow an unarmed man while you yourself have a gun then hell yes is that person justified in fighting back. Martin was no threat to anyone.
I haven't heard of any other injuries.
edited 15th Jul '13 8:49:48 AM by Kostya
I'm tempted to demand that this topic be closed because it's just going in circles. The facts that we know of are: (1) Zimmerman pursued Martin despite being told not to; (2) Zimmerman was armed while Martin was not; (3) In the ensuing altercation, Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman.
That's all that's pertinent to the case. The rest is all emotion and appeals to race, character attacks on the defendant/victim, etc. In the end, there was no need for Martin to have died, and Zimmerman was the one who killed him. Yet there was, apparently, not enough evidence for a conviction. It's over. Let's move on.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Um, Greenmantle dearie, I'm from the Netherlands. Germania Inferior is the name of a Roman province that covered Belgium, Luxembourg, and parts of France, Germany and my country. It's in my location because it's technically accurate and I think it sounds cool
I just caught wind of the topic, so I'm a little disappointed to see it die right after I joined it, but if everyone's sick of it, then I'm willing to drop it.
Do we have an alternate discussion point, or do we just let the thread die until someone comes up with something?
edited 15th Jul '13 9:07:46 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.@Tobias: I just brought up the farm bill a little while ago.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
Oooh, yes. I can't help but be a bit gleeful at the dilemma that Senate Republicans are in now. Their intransigence and abuse of the filibuster have led them to the point where Reid may finally refuse to deal with them at all. So they're in the unenviable position of having to either make genuine compromises or lose any hope of stopping Obama's appointments. Oh, the schadenfreude!
edited 15th Jul '13 9:18:08 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@Greenmantle: Nah, it's cool, I'm actually a bit of a Germanophile myself. In another situation, I'd be flattered at your assessment of my German.
State-side? Well, in Pennsylvania the Republican governor will likely get the boot, and his fellows in Michigan and Florida might too. Republicans are hoping to add Massachusetts and Arkansas to their governors.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

For over-reacting to a non-lethal threat, I guess.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman