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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#58301: Jul 13th 2013 at 11:33:32 PM

[up] Three. Second degree murder conviction, manslaughter conviction, not guilty. tongue

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#58303: Jul 13th 2013 at 11:54:03 PM

can you blame them when white culture will treat them the same way anyhow?

Could you seriously drop the hyperbole a tad? The whole "white people are going to use this as an excuse to go open season on blacks" shit is really fucking obnoxious. Your whole fucking tone is just mainline obnoxious. It's been brought up that Zimmerman is Hispanic. A rebuttal to Trayvon not being a demonic gangbanger is that he certainly wasn't a very good kid either.

Yeah, those evil fucking white people. Especially the ones who are gun owners. We're all evil racist vigilantes who walk around our neighborhoods with our guns hoping to bag another Darkie as a wallhanger.

Seriously dude, maybe you're just emotional and pissed off about the verdict, but cut the shit and cut the attitude. I just caught up with like 3 solid pages of that.

drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#58304: Jul 13th 2013 at 11:56:53 PM

Barkey's called it. Want to be angry at some racists? Blame the swamp-rat cops who showed up, saw two brown people in a fight and decided not to give a fuck about it. That's why Zimmerman walked anyhow...no evidence. Because the Florida cops decided Martin getting killed wasn't worth an investigation.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#58305: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:01:17 AM

I just get really sick of some of the folks here when they keep talking with that "Yeah, fuck those evil gun owners" vibe. It's why I become such a complete and utter asshole when those people show up with that attitude. Most of the people who get CCW's shoot more often than the police and are seriously hardcore hobbyists, including about actual training, to the point of borderline obsession. The majority read about conflict avoidance and such as well, in my experience the average gun owner/carrier isn't some asshat like Zimmerman out to enforce the law. They are usually people who just want to be able to go through their day and not be worried about being victimized.

Besides which, the line about how "If it was a white guy named Travis it would be a different story."

Yeah, it would be, it wouldn't even be on the fucking news. Nobody cares if a white dude gets shot, but someone who isn't black shooting a black teenager? Stop the fucking presses while we stir a bunch of ignorant people in the black community into a fucking media frenzy over this. If it were "Travis" then it'd be an open shut case where they declared Zimmermans actions were lawful and it would barely be a police report.

edited 14th Jul '13 12:02:52 AM by Barkey

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#58306: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:02:13 AM

I just want to quote this for emphasis. The fact that this charge is there confirms that it was, in fact, an automatic weapon.

Automatic weapons tend to require a very expensive tax stamp to the ATF to purchase legally, which is booked and can sort of serve as "registration" because the record of the tax stamp is kept on the books.

I don't know if he legally paid for the gun, because I'm not familiar with Oregon gun laws. That mention of unlawful possession suggests that he did not buy it legally.

Okay, yeah, that makes it a pretty open-and-shut case then.

Likely the incident will be paraded by both sides as proof of their brand of gun law — by the right that restrictive gun laws don't actually prevent people from owning them illegally, and by the left as an excuse to whip up non-sequitur support to ban legal models that, once again, had nothing to do with this.

As to the characteristics named. If the weapon really was automatic, then yes, it was an assault rifle. That's one of the requirements for use of that term. "Assault Weapon" is not a real term with any real applications or definitions. It's a Democrat buzzword for "Rifles that make me think of soldiers more than hunters" and is highly objective. [sic, should be subjective]

Barkey has the right of it. "Assault rifle" is often erroneously used to talk about semiautomatic rifles with cosmetic features targeted by assault weapon bans, but it is actually defined as an automatic that's for the most part already illegal.

Which is kind of the thinly-veiled point, of course, to conflate the mental image of those weapons with that of a fully automatic death machine.

edited 14th Jul '13 12:06:17 AM by Pykrete

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#58307: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:03:55 AM

Not to mention that Liberals have never figured out what the actual definition of an assault weapon is, they just keep moving the goalposts without ever deciding what an assault weapon consists of.

KBSL Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#58308: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:06:32 AM

@Barkey, though I think you're right about how the whole everyone is going to be rioting in the street thing is hyperbole that is just going to unnecessarily scare people, I don't see how midgetsnowman was implying that all white people or gun owners are evil.

And as to Trayvon Martin, not being a pefect angel, or even a good kid, I say to you, who the hell cares? He wasn't the one on trial, and I hate the fact people make it seem like because he got suspended a few times that somehow makes his death not such a bad thing. People react that way about all races equal, "Oh, the person who got murdered, did drugs or was a teenage mother, that makes me feel better." It's sickening.

Edit: I also agree with you about gun-owners, that seems to be the liberal version of what abortion is to conservatives. All that matters is emotion, and not facts or statistics, or what things like what "assault rifle" even mean.

edited 14th Jul '13 12:08:14 AM by KBSL

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#58309: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:09:47 AM

Frankly, I couldnt give two shits what the definition of an assault weapon is. I'm just sick of people in my home state who will gleefully defend the second amendment while pissing on all the rest. Missouri legislators do that a lot.

I'd say to a large degree liberal antipathy towards guns comes in one of two flavors. Uninformed people like you said, or people like me who simply hate the gun enthusiasts we personally know to the point we'd gladly spite them.

edited 14th Jul '13 12:12:58 AM by midgetsnowman

joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#58310: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:09:50 AM

@Barkley:Hence your sig line.

Wouldn't something like 'designed for high capability magazines and capable sustained semi or fully automatic fire' do the trick?

edited 14th Jul '13 12:22:30 AM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid
KBSL Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#58311: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:13:42 AM

you should care, midgetsnowman, because it gives the gun-control argument more weight, if the people actually arguing for it actually know the definition and capabilities of the things they are trying to get restricted. This argument, "This is a gun and an assualt rifle is a gun, so this is an assualt rifle and should be banned." doesn't fly with most people, nor should it.

I don't think it's asking to much to ask people to know basic facts about the things they are railing against.

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#58312: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:16:38 AM

[up]

meh.

if someone wants to play with a gun, I dont care. I only care when they decide to play batman ninja vigilante man. or convince themselves theyre a goddamn action hero. or post condescending and retarded shit on facebook about how they could totally take on a house robber.

And frankly, Gun Control arguments are pointless because the legislatures too in bed with gun manufacturers to ever allow any gun laws with any real teeth instead of random shit that makes us all look like monsters anyhow, so fuck it.

edited 14th Jul '13 12:17:34 AM by midgetsnowman

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#58313: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:21:14 AM

And as to Trayvon Martin, not being a pefect angel, or even a good kid, I say to you, who the hell cares? He wasn't the one on trial, and I hate the fact people make it seem like because he got suspended a few times that somehow makes his death not such a bad thing.

Trayvon's predilections are extremely relevant. We're not talking about "a kid who got suspended a few times", we're talking about a kid who threw a guy down, jumped on top of him, and repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk. While Zimmerman strikes me as skeezy and probably provoked it, possibly to the point of stalker behavior, the point remains that he was being physically assaulted when he shot the guy. Legally, that makes it pretty straightforward.

I mean, are you seriously going to tell a guy that he doesn't have the right to use whatever force is available while being beaten into unconsciousness? It's one thing to say from the safety of the couch that it's morally wrong to use a gun in a close-quarters situation, escalation of force, that you totally have a safe chance of arming yourself with a bigger stick and winning a close-quarters scuffle (side note: lolno) etc. But delete all the circumstances leading up to that position, then put yourself in it. You're on the ground, dude on top of you, and — I cannot reiterate this enough — head getting slammed into the sidewalk. You have a loaded gun. What do?

Now comparisons to other incidents, the lady getting jailed for warning shots at her abusive husband, that's another can of worms altogether, and worth discussing in depth. Racism and double standards in law enforcement and civilians is a real thing, it's widespread, it's bad, and it's not clear how much is leftover closet white supremacists, and how much is reactions to black communities actually having way more violent crime due to disproportionate poverty perpetuated by economic fuckery and getting preyed on by organized crime because of that poverty (hint, though: it's probably a lot more of the latter).

But to point at this and say it's the KKK calling open season on blacks is frankly stupid as hell and you're all better than that. Jesus Christ, people.

edited 14th Jul '13 1:05:26 AM by Pykrete

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#58314: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:24:32 AM

[up]

Meh. I'm just in a deeply cynical "fuck the world" kind of mood, thats all.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#58315: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:26:56 AM

Meh. I was in that mood throughout the whole media circus on that case. I got a very distinct impression of "Happy birthday! Everyone in this is an asshole!" It's rather difficult to get emotionally invested in a desired outcome that way.

KBSL Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#58316: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:27:02 AM

[up]X3 I agree, however, many people were pointing to his other indiscretions and using them as ways to make it seem as if he being dead are okay.

Honestly, I was extremely indifferent to this trial to being with so, I don't even know why I'm discussing it so much.

You don't have to point out the uselessness of hyperbole to me.

edited 14th Jul '13 12:27:32 AM by KBSL

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#58317: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:28:46 AM

[up]

thats nothing new.

People LOVE managing tio take the sting out of any death by finding ways to justify iot. That way they can convince themselves it'll never happen to them.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#58318: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:40:16 AM

"Makes it okay?" No. But it does make the lead-up a lot more traceable and understandable, and makes claims of racism suspect. A kid with noted authority issues and photo record of thuggin' it up, in a neighborhood that already has gang problems, is going to draw attention from locals regardless of racism (which, again, is legally assumed not to be a dominating factor unless evidenced otherwise — and Zimmerman's history actually suggests the opposite, particularly stuff like his activism in the Sherman Ware case).

Said kid then violently assaulted a guy, which was likely provoked. Provoked assault is a can of worms. There are plenty of precedents of provoking the assault resulting in charges to the guy who provoked it, and in my mind Zimmerman should've been hit with that.

That said, there is also the distinct possibility Zimmerman was telling the truth. If I saw a kid snooping around behind houses and law enforcement blew me off without even investigating, I'd want to keep an eye on him too, and I wouldn't be surprised if a confrontation turned violent. Lack of evidence is a real bitch like that.

edited 14th Jul '13 1:00:08 AM by Pykrete

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#58319: Jul 14th 2013 at 12:40:41 AM

Everybody dies in the end.

Keep Rolling On
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#58320: Jul 14th 2013 at 2:15:08 AM

All I got out of this is that if you shoot someone in Florida, be sure they smoke pot first. Better yet, stay away from Florida.

edited 14th Jul '13 2:19:11 AM by Morgikit

Nettacki Since: Jan, 2010
#58321: Jul 14th 2013 at 2:25:41 AM

[up][up][up]if Zimmerman was so violently assaulted, then why did he only come away with a slightly broken nose?

deviantbraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#58322: Jul 14th 2013 at 2:29:28 AM

[up][up][up]

Best Ending Ever.

Protesters of Zimmerman Acquittal March in California

edited 14th Jul '13 2:35:07 AM by deviantbraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
kraas Since: Nov, 2009
#58323: Jul 14th 2013 at 4:59:43 AM

[up][up] Exactly. If Zimmerman's head was supposedly slammed into a concrete curb multiple times by an athletic-looking young man, wouldn't he have gotten a more serious injury than a few cuts? Something like a concussion or skull fracture?

edited 14th Jul '13 5:00:55 AM by kraas

TheBatPencil from Glasgow, Scotland Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#58324: Jul 14th 2013 at 6:10:27 AM

Lack of evidence is a real bitch like that.

Indeed. Essentially it's down to whose word the Jury accepts over the other interpretation of events, and you'd might as well replace the Jury with a coin-toss at that stage. This is why we have a Not Proven verdict, by the way.

I would say that he should have been found guilty of manslaughter, for what it's worth. Even taking the profiling thing into account I don't think he's a racist who acted with hatred, so no second-degree murder conviction, but I do think he's responsible for Martin's unjustifiable death.

edited 14th Jul '13 6:13:06 AM by TheBatPencil

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)
Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#58325: Jul 14th 2013 at 6:52:07 AM

I find it interesting that everybody is concerned about possible racism in this case but no one deems it to be a problem that basically everybody in Florida can play police-officer with a loaded gun. Nobody here knows what really happened, but as far as I know, police officers are trained to solve conflicts non-violently. No civilian should be allowed to carry a loaded weapon outside of his house.


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