Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
White House rebukes online petitioners calling for presidential election recount
The White House on Wednesday responded to online petitions over the Westboro Baptist Church
What I want to know is why everyone seems to be queueing up to call Snowden some sort of hero. I don't know about anyone else but I'm saving that accolade for someone who actually deserves it rather than the latest in a long line of people to throw an egg at the US Government.
"Yup. That tasted purple."That's a bit simplistic. He didn't just throw an egg at a house, he threw his career, his girlfriend, essentially his entire life away when he had every personal incentive not to do so. Whether or not you agree with the call he made, you have to respect his willingness to sacrifice for what he believes in.
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.Not really. It can still be a selfish act. He's certainly not behaving like a noble champion of some ideal of freedom; he's acting like a man who tattled on his boss in a fit of pique and is now running away from the consequences.
edited 3rd Jul '13 11:49:01 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"How can it be selfish if he had nothing to gain from it, only things to lose? He lived in Hawaii with a six digit salary. I'm not trying to justify what he did in a moral sense or put him on a pedestal, I just don't see the need to belittle him, either.
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.Rep. Gohmert: We Don’t Need Sex Ed Because ‘Mankind Has Existed For Long Time’ Without It
He's gained fame and notoriety. He can learn to cash in on that. '
edited 3rd Jul '13 11:59:24 AM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016He's acting like a man who is afraid of being returned to the United States, made to stand trial for espionage, and sentenced if found guilty. Which is exactly what the law says should happen to him. There are no "human rights" issues involved; he violated multiple laws, did so in full knowledge of the consequences, and the law will determine his fate.
Call him a hero, call him a traitor — it's really not relevant to the facts of the case. His only defense at trial would be his conscience, and if it turns out that he's taking money or selling secrets in exchange for asylum, it only weakens his case.
@Gohmert: And prehistoric man used to fight predatory animals for food and invade his neighboring villages to murder their children and rape their women. How far back shall we turn the clock? Shall we have Gladiator Games fought by slaves? Throw away our guns and wield spears? Huddle around cooking fires in fear of the night demons? Die at 30 of disease or starvation?
edited 3rd Jul '13 12:07:54 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!""Infamously brutal", huh? Whatever. Aren't conservatives always yakking about how we're too nice to our inmates?
Anyway, by that logic, anybody who commits any crime is justified in fleeing the country so as not to be subjected to our "infamously brutal prisons". Can we at least make rational excuses? Or shall we suspend the criminal justice system completely until our prisons are nice, cozy places to be incarcerated?
edited 3rd Jul '13 12:17:57 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Yeah, no. Badly needed systematic reform to a system with a hilariously atrocious rate of recidivism =/= letting all prisoners roam free.
Anyway, that's not what I said. From Snowden's perspective, he has no incentive to throw himself upon the mercy of such a system.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.![]()
Neither does any criminal ever! Hell, even in a system with happy fun prisons, one still doesn't want to get thrown in one. Very few criminals are excited about going to jail. "Heeeeeeeyyyy there, police! Yep, I killed him. Now take me away, I'm looking forward to those swanky accommodations and awesome food!"
The only difference between them and Snowden is that the latter had the resources (and possibly the aid) to flee the country before being apprehended.
He's The One That Got Away! Go, little fishy! Evade that nasty hook! Now, for my yummy dinner of trout...
edited 3rd Jul '13 12:24:48 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"and it doesnt help the US that they and their allies just pissed Bolivia off something fierce because they forced the Bolivian presidential jet to land and be subject to a full search because the US had a rumor snowden MIGHT be on board.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/americas/bolivia-presidential-plane
because apparently having a rumor that someone might be onboard is now reason enough to deny you entry into french airspace, force you to divert for refueling, then comb your national plane.
edited 3rd Jul '13 12:28:38 PM by midgetsnowman
![]()
Point being the US might have had an easier time of getting Snowden to face trial in the States if the system was fairer and he had a chance of not being thrown in some hellhole for the rest of his life. If he was Swedish, for example, I really doubt he'd be so intent on avoiding extradition.
And why are we so convinced that he wouldn't receive a fair trial? It's not like there's any chance that he's innocent.
I'll grant that the calls among certain high profile politicians for him to be tortured might be a bit off-putting.
edited 3rd Jul '13 12:31:35 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Well, obviously the planning committees need to be held at gunpoint until they can build more crosswalk space.