TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57301: Jun 29th 2013 at 5:52:28 AM

[up]

Nope. Basically it goes as such

when you cant afford college, you can take out a loan. There are 2 kinds. first are subsidized loans. you dont pay interest until you're out. second are unsubsidized, which start accruing interest immediately. (ythese generally only happen to those who need large amounts of aid to go to school (read: poorer students)

as for gettiung out of them, legally, theres only two ways to get out of these loans. death, or an injury bad enough to keep you from working for the rest of your life. Bankruptcy doesnt stop you from owing, nor does being unemployed. Keep in mind people have tried to reform half of that, but conservatives would rather just either scrap the whole system claiming it'd make college much cheaper somehow (while making it impossible for the poor to attend), or claiming that much debt builds character.

edited 29th Jun '13 5:53:31 AM by midgetsnowman

Inhopelessguy Since: Apr, 2011
#57302: Jun 29th 2013 at 6:02:56 AM

...

Whut.

Man, now I feel bad for complaining about my Government's regime. tongue

Here, the Government caps student fees at £9 000 per year. The Government pays the University your student loan, regardless of your household income.

The Government gives everyone a basic £3 500 maintenance loan, and up to £4 500 extra for a maintenance grant (depending on household income). This is actually quite generous - I am a middle-class individual and I get £3 500 for a grant. Both the loan and grant are paid directly to the student's bank account.

After you leave university, the payments start after you start earning £25 000 or more with 3% interest. They stop the payments after three things; a) death, b) unemployment, and c) thirty years.

Does the Government give a Maintenance Loan to cover living costs?

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57303: Jun 29th 2013 at 6:06:28 AM

living costs are calculated into the school's expected funds you'll need for the semester, so generally thats counted as part of the overall financial aid you need to attend.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#57304: Jun 29th 2013 at 6:35:22 AM

Well, on that note, has there been an increase in US Students studying abroad, where the cost of University might be lower?

Keep Rolling On
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57305: Jun 29th 2013 at 6:42:53 AM

[up]

I somehow doubt it, given the travel costs involve make it prohibitive for anyone not already able to afford school.

Linhasxoc Since: Jun, 2009
#57306: Jun 29th 2013 at 7:41:44 AM

Wait, it gets better. Stafford Loans (the kind most people are talking about when they mention government student loans) cap out at $5,500/$6,500/$7,500 per year, depending on how many credits you've earned. Of that, at least $2,000 must be unsubsidized, even if you qualify for subsidized loans. If you don't qualify (i.e. your family is solidly middle-class) the whole thing is unsubsidized. If you need more money, and don't qualify for needs-based aid such as Pell grants or Perkins loans, you've got two choices: Parent PLUS loans (through the government again, except your parents take out the loan instead and have to pass a credit check) or private student loans, which are designed to suck you dry.

As far as repayment goes, there are a few different options with federal loans (I can't speak for private loans, as I didn't take any). The most common one is a simple ten-year repayment plan; there are also income-based plans, graduated plans, and a twenty-five year plan for those who can't afford the ten-year plan. Student loans are notoriously hard to discharge in bankruptcy proceedings, but on the other hand, if you die, the loans end right there (the same goes for a parent PLUS loan taken out on your behalf).

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57307: Jun 29th 2013 at 7:47:59 AM

In short, basically, student loans are designed less for student benefit and more so the lending agencies involved make a fuckton of guaranteed repayment

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#57308: Jun 29th 2013 at 7:52:09 AM

They are extraordinarily profitable, yes. Or so I understand. I had to pay off loans for just a single year of college and it was a pain in the ass.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#57309: Jun 29th 2013 at 7:59:29 AM

...idea. Foreign country institutes a law by which it refuses to prosecute foreign debts, invites American graduates to their country for work with the incentive of being able to abandon their student loans. Easy brain drain.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#57310: Jun 29th 2013 at 8:00:56 AM

[up]Caveat: have you seen the quality of some US graduates? You guys are not getting bang for all those bucks in a lot of cases. <_< Many countries may not wish to drain said brains. tongue

edited 29th Jun '13 8:01:36 AM by Euodiachloris

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#57311: Jun 29th 2013 at 8:09:39 AM

[up] I suspect they'd want Chinese Graduates instead...

Keep Rolling On
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57312: Jun 29th 2013 at 8:31:00 AM

chinese schools are pretty meh as well. Though the problem with american schools is a combination of grade inflation and extreme over-valuing of "practical" degrees like Nursing and Business management, leading to absolute gluts of vaguely qualified grads in overcrowded fields.

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#57313: Jun 29th 2013 at 9:25:41 AM

As Instapundit pointed out, colleges got their monies up front. Why do you think tuition in the US kept going up?

What's Really 'Immoral' About Student Loans

GLENN HARLAN REYNOLDS

Now here's where the real immorality kicks in. The skyrocketing cost of a college education is a classic unintended consequence of government intervention. Colleges have responded to the availability of easy federal money by doing what subsidized industries generally do: Raising prices to capture the subsidy. Sold as a tool to help students cope with rising college costs, student loans have instead been a major contributor to the problem.

In truth, America's student loan problem won't be solved by low interest rates—for many students, the debt would be crippling even if the interest rate were zero.

...

A serious student-loan fix would change this incentive. First, federal aid could be capped, perhaps at a national average, or simply indexed to the consumer-price index, making it harder for schools to raise tuition willy-nilly. Second, schools that receive subsidized loan money could be left on the hook for a percentage of the loan balance if students default. I would favor allowing students who can't pay to discharge their loan balances in bankruptcy after a reasonable time—say, five to seven years, maybe even 10—with the institutions that got the money being liable to the guarantors (i.e., the taxpayers) for, say, 10% or 20% of the balance.

edited 29th Jun '13 9:26:25 AM by TairaMai

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57314: Jun 29th 2013 at 9:41:53 AM

[up]

and why do you think they'd magically go down if student loans were taken out of the mix? They might go down some, but not enough for poor people who absolutely cant get into college without loans to see any benefit from it.

Its a catch 22. Either you saddle poor students with massive debts, or you saddle poor students with having to magically pull college money out of their ass.

edited 29th Jun '13 9:43:10 AM by midgetsnowman

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#57315: Jun 29th 2013 at 9:46:31 AM

The problem here is that you basically have to be super rich to be able to handle it. It used to be that a middle class person found it a strain, but could handle it, but now almost no one can actually pay it off.

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#57316: Jun 29th 2013 at 9:48:42 AM

Not take student loans out of the mix, but hold colleges accountable if they graduate people who can't find jobs. And hold off the money until people graduate, taking away the incentive to jack up tuition.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57317: Jun 29th 2013 at 9:54:24 AM

[up]

could work. Might have unintended side effects like colleges demanding students get their degree done as fast as humanly possible and pick a degree choice the second they enter college, though.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#57318: Jun 29th 2013 at 10:01:49 AM

If the students work at the same pace, what are the colleges going to do? Kick them out? That will lower the amount of money they get.

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57319: Jun 29th 2013 at 10:04:31 AM

Well, I imagine it'd motivate colleges to run students through as fast as possible to get money asap.

Keep in mind, as much as we wanna villainize colleges as the sole enemy, remember at least some monetary issues also come from tiny problems like the need to update tech on campus constantly (the graphic design dept at my school literally has to keep their macs at best 1-2 years out of date at most or else lose some of their national accreditations from national design firms) to keep up and how many states are conveniently cutting educational funding at every turn.

thats not saying theyre blameless, either. Just that a good deal of a colleges finances dont go into funding massive teachers salaries, they go into keeping a massive school up to date enough to not become the laughingstock of the educated world.

edited 29th Jun '13 10:07:30 AM by midgetsnowman

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#57320: Jun 29th 2013 at 10:19:07 AM

Somehow I don't think blaming people not finding jobs on colleges is a good idea or would actually solve or contribute to solving the problem, and would instead lead to more of a glut of "practical" degree seeking like nursing and business. I mean, sometimes people more qualified come along, colleges aren't entirely responsible (or even mainly responsible) for things like our current depression, sometimes the student in question is an asshole no employer wants.

Yeah, the student's on their own for finding a job. The college is there to provide an education, not hand us things on a silver plate, so that's a terrible solution Taira.

Frankly I'd like for them to cut off the need to pay at a certain time, since this sort of thing can dog a graduated student for years. Forgiveness of the debt after a certain amount of time would probably be very helpful.

Inhopelessguy Since: Apr, 2011
#57321: Jun 29th 2013 at 10:38:01 AM

Yeah, the student's on their own for finding a job. The college is there to provide an education, not hand us things on a silver plate, so that's a terrible solution Taira.

I dunno. There's a certain point there. UK universities have grown from being "an educative institution" (circa 1980s) to "educative institution with a job-giving role" (circa 1990s-today). Universities regularly host job fairs and do almost everything that is possible with their funding to get their graduates a job. Don't US universities attempt to do that? Do they just shove you through your undergrad and breathe a sigh of relief?

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#57322: Jun 29th 2013 at 11:22:13 AM

So called moderate Chris Christie says he would veto the gay marriage bill and that the people should decide. (cause that goes over SO well >_>)

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/politics&id=9153829

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57323: Jun 29th 2013 at 11:33:00 AM

[up]

He does realize that if we straight up let people decide on a pure majority basis, Gay mariage would win, right?

The only reason it doesnt is because the people more likely to show up to the polls are the psychotic douchebag types.

edited 29th Jun '13 11:33:34 AM by midgetsnowman

Linhasxoc Since: Jun, 2009
#57324: Jun 29th 2013 at 11:40:02 AM

Not take student loans out of the mix, but hold colleges accountable if they graduate people who can't find jobs. And hold off the money until people graduate, taking away the incentive to jack up tuition.

Actually, while this won't solve the problems of rising tuition in general, I'm pretty sure this has been proposed as a solution to the problem of for-profit colleges charging an arm and a leg for substandard education.

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#57325: Jun 29th 2013 at 11:54:46 AM

Yeah. Rising Tution prices have a lot of factors. Some of them are the school jacking up prices. Some of them are because everything else is jacking up prices too for various reasons.

I mean,. seriously, one of the biggest expenses for my college is the fact theyre so obsessed with keeping their nursing and graphic design accreditations that they buy us entire new classrooms full of macs every year.


Total posts: 417,856
Top