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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#56676: Jun 19th 2013 at 9:22:47 AM

So soldiers are just animals in heat? I'm reminded of something a friend once said. "You're telling me that my dog understands the word no but a human male is somehow too stupid to understand?"

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#56677: Jun 19th 2013 at 9:23:39 AM

edited 19th Jun '13 9:24:18 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#56678: Jun 19th 2013 at 9:52:55 AM

[up][up] Wow that is stupid. It is also incredibly insulting to the soldiers.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#56679: Jun 19th 2013 at 10:06:45 AM

[up]Hey: multi-level foot-in-mouth is a complicated manoeuvre. It should only be attempted by pros, after all. <shrugs> And, well: he is one. tongue

Meklar from Milky Way Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
#56680: Jun 19th 2013 at 11:20:17 AM

Their attitude toward global warming pisses me off as well. "Oh, the Earth deserve the damage we make on her! It is essential for successful business!"
I consider myself essentially libertarian (although not anarchist). However, I totally do not share this attitude. Environmental damage is not a victimless crime, it has repercussions in health and agriculture.

On their economic belief, I must say, where I came from has a system very close to Laissez-faire. Look how that turns out for the peasants.
Actually, the free market system works pretty well. The economic problems we have in the western world these days are not due to capitalism, but to going past capitalism into a jungle of red tape and government-enforced monopolies.

Join my forum game!
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#56681: Jun 19th 2013 at 11:36:59 AM

Sssooooorta. Even disregarding that, a completely free market is going to have winners and losers, and the winners use their proceeds to win more and make the losers lose more.

I mean, those abusive monopolies came from somewhere, and at some point they had enough power to cause said red tape and self-written legislation.

edited 19th Jun '13 11:37:58 AM by Pykrete

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56682: Jun 19th 2013 at 11:39:50 AM

What libertarianism is is basically a set of assumptions proffered first and checked second. Now such practice is common to other political ideologies as well, but since I'm talking libertarianism, I'll explain this case in particular.

The assumption is "let everyone do what they want, as much as possible". There are usually further assumptions that give caveats for very obvious public goods, such as national defense, law and order, and maybe infrastructure. But otherwise, the thinking is, "let people do whatever they want" first, and only if there are issues that crop up later, deal with them accordingly, perhaps using damages and tort law in a court system.

The problems with this approach are:

  1. Neglect of problems that are not obvious. Problems like racial discriminiation, or the poor geting shafted in educational and career advancement opportunities. This is closely related to...
  2. Neglect of problems that involve a time delay. This includes health risks that don't pop up immediately, or practically every case of environmental degradation.
  3. Using a tort system to assign blame is not necessarily reliable, and is necessarily after-the-fact. Some damages are irreversible, such as death. Some damages are hard to assign. There are also transaction costs involved in taking someone to court, but libertarians rarely talk about things like public defender provisions or pro bono legal work, which will be underprovided in a completely free market because there's little money to be made.

I agree with the idea of "let everyone do what they want, as much as reasonably possible". However, along with that idea must come an acknowledgement that such a "free-for-all" does NOT by itself result in "liberty and justice for all" or providing everyone a fair chance, but needs some tweaking.

Occasionally a lot of tweaking. Because economic externalities and underprovision of public goods are real things.

edited 19th Jun '13 11:40:34 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56683: Jun 19th 2013 at 11:48:39 AM

Put more simply (no offense meant), maximum individual liberty does not result in maximum total liberty. Liberty itself is an illusion, because a poor person who is the victim of systematic injustice has "liberty" in the sense that he is free to starve to death, but telling him that he is "free from compulsion by the state" is not likely to result in an expression of gratitude.

edited 19th Jun '13 11:50:00 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56684: Jun 19th 2013 at 11:51:53 AM

Irish parliamentarians spar over 'war criminal' Obama's summit visit

Noam Chomsky: Obama Is ‘Running Biggest Terrorist Operation That Exists’

edited 19th Jun '13 12:03:11 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#56685: Jun 19th 2013 at 1:08:47 PM

[up]x9 Sounds like a variation of the "Boys will be boys" argument.

Trump delenda est
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#56686: Jun 19th 2013 at 1:13:37 PM

[up]Which is incredibly funny given that the people that use that argument tend to be men which means they're calling themselves rapists.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56687: Jun 19th 2013 at 1:55:20 PM

FBI Director: NSA Leaks Educate Terrorists Who ‘Don’t Understand The Internet’

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56688: Jun 19th 2013 at 1:59:53 PM

And they outrage politicians (and Fox News viewers) who don't understand the Internet. Who's worse?

edited 19th Jun '13 2:00:13 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56689: Jun 19th 2013 at 2:11:50 PM

Karl Rove: Unlike Obama, Cheney had 'the guts to defend' NSA programs

AP chief: DOJ acted as 'judge, jury and executioner' in probe

edited 19th Jun '13 2:58:19 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#56690: Jun 19th 2013 at 3:24:17 PM

[up]Because Obama apparently hasn't been defending the NSA programs?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56691: Jun 19th 2013 at 4:35:26 PM

I love one thing about the NSA scandal. The republicans cant decide whether to hate Obama for condoning the program or hate obama for not supporting the program enough.

edited 19th Jun '13 4:35:35 PM by midgetsnowman

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56692: Jun 19th 2013 at 4:36:19 PM

Yeah, the popcorny feeling is a silver lining.

lordnyx Since: Aug, 2009
#56694: Jun 19th 2013 at 5:27:50 PM

[up]So by that same token, her political career was what then?

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56695: Jun 19th 2013 at 5:39:46 PM

A conservative 'insurgent'.

EVERYTHING YOU KNEW WAS WRONG

edited 19th Jun '13 5:40:10 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56696: Jun 19th 2013 at 5:43:48 PM

Because conservatism is simultaneously a persecuted minority viewpoint and the view of all right minded people, who comprise the majority of Americans. While a logical contradiction, it makes perfect sense as a rhetorical device. You can know that everyone around you supports the True American Way, while also fighting valiantly to unseat the Evil Socialist Empire that dominates the country.

edited 19th Jun '13 5:45:00 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56697: Jun 19th 2013 at 6:04:48 PM

I don't think they've actually claimed minority status (which actually undermines your point, incidentally).

What U.S. ideological "conservatives" claim is the following:

  • there's a silent majority of like-minded "conservatives" in the US
  • in the US, "liberals" make up a vocal minority who have been good at tricking people into giving them policymaking power
  • the way these "liberals" (allegedly) trick people is by promising the general public free (or cheap) goods and services from the government, making them lazy and dependent, while using their political clout to force the wealthy to foot the bill
  • "conservatives" believe that no one should be given such "handouts", and each individual should either earn their share of good living (and they can earn as much as they want, so long as they work to get them) or else be left in poverty (if they choose to be lazy and not work)
  • if only the silent majority that agrees with this principle would wake up and see what these "liberals" are (allegedly) doing, they would vote the them out of office, and this country would be much better off.

edited 19th Jun '13 6:06:26 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#56698: Jun 19th 2013 at 7:23:43 PM

What's your view on the NSA and PRISM stuff?

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56699: Jun 19th 2013 at 7:41:46 PM

[up]

I'd say both parties are complicit and its laughable watching them try to blame it on the other.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56700: Jun 19th 2013 at 10:04:30 PM

NSA Head Caught In Open Mic Moment: ‘Tell Your Boss I Owe Him Another Friggin’ Beer’

Obama proposes cutting nukes by a third

edited 19th Jun '13 10:15:44 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

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