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NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#56651: Jun 18th 2013 at 2:55:20 PM

Why the states should have "equal voice" in electing the President is a bit of a mystery to me; it means that a vote in a heavily populated state counts less than a vote in a lightly populated state, just because we assign arbitrary value to some lines drawn on a map.
Calling states "arbitrary lines on a map" seems a bit disingenuous. It seems reasonable to me that a) different states will have different opinions and priorities on federal issues, b) states have, in many ways, equal in authority on the federal level, c) therefore, states should not get completely screwed for having a small population, d) however, individual voters should not get completely screwed for living in a state with a small population, e) therefore, the electoral college is a compromise between "each state has an equal say in choosing the president" and "small states get screwed via straight popular vote" — a compromise weighted significantly toward the individual voters as opposed to the states, incidentally. I'm pretty okay with that.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#56652: Jun 18th 2013 at 3:03:23 PM

Michael Burgess (R-TX): Fetuses can wank, QED abortion after 20 weeks must be banned.

As the House of Representatives prepares on Tuesday to consider huge legislative restrictions on a woman’s right to choose, one GOP congressman is using the idea that fetuses can masturbate to argue for more abortion restrictions.

On Monday evening, Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX), an Ob/Gyn by trade, told his colleagues to, “Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful,” as RH Reality Check reports: They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?"

The House’s bill uses the scientifically disputed idea that a fetus can feel pain after 20 weeks as the basis for effectively ban all abortions after that time. Several state legislatures have passed similar bans, though just last month an appeals court struck down a ‘fetal pain’ bill in Arizona, finding that the law was unconstitutional under Roe v. Wade.

This is just coming off as desperate...

edited 18th Jun '13 3:03:50 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56653: Jun 18th 2013 at 3:48:54 PM

Crazy people.

@Native Jovian: What part of the fact that Wyoming voters count nearly four times as much as California voters screams "fair" to you?

The concept of states as anything other than jurisdictional units is obsolete.

edited 18th Jun '13 3:50:11 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#56654: Jun 18th 2013 at 3:51:23 PM

[up][up]How the hell does he know the movements are purposeful? Does he remember being a baby?

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#56655: Jun 18th 2013 at 5:03:48 PM

[up][up]I like it better than the alternative — and I live in Florida, one of the states that supposedly gets the short stick for having my vote "count less". If you expect states to surrender some of their authority to the federal government, then putting systems in place to make sure that small states don't get completely fucked by big states, while still ensuring that big states have more pull overall, as benefits their larger population, seems reasonable.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56656: Jun 18th 2013 at 5:06:32 PM

Answer this: what is the purpose of states? What function do they serve? What makes Wyoming deserve to stand on equal footing with California, other than because we say it should?

edited 18th Jun '13 5:06:39 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#56657: Jun 18th 2013 at 6:21:35 PM
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56658: Jun 18th 2013 at 6:22:07 PM

Well, obviously Rep. Burgess thinks it looks that way.

He is, however, a massive jerkwad, so it makes sense.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#56659: Jun 18th 2013 at 6:23:54 PM

[up][up] I will point out that most Texans, including myself, will fight tooth and nail over that map.

I may loath our state government, but I am a Texan.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56660: Jun 18th 2013 at 6:33:06 PM

State pride will always trump Electoral college reform. tongue

Also Tule is a stupid name for a State.

NSA chief cites 50 foiled plots in defense of spying programs

Hagel approves plan allowing women to join Navy SEALS, Army Rangers

Ron Paul Slams ‘Sham’ NSA Hearing On Fox: Why Don’t We Ask What’s ‘Motivating’ Terrorists To Kill Us?

edited 18th Jun '13 6:34:43 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#56661: Jun 18th 2013 at 7:07:55 PM

Answer this: what is the purpose of states? What function do they serve?
The purpose of states is to provide a layer of government above municipal and county and below federal. Having multiple layers of government is beneficial for a number of reasons — high level government is good for dealing with high-level issues (like raising armies and minting currency), while low level government is good for dealing with low-level issues (like zoning and utilities). In addition to dealing with mid-level issues, one of the main duties of state governments in the US is to provide for representation in the federal government — we don't actually have any national elections, just state elections for national office. The electoral college is the method for using that state-level representation to choose the president, of which there can obviously only be one.

For the record, I would have no problem with dividing up electoral college electors proportionally — which wouldn't affect the "some individual votes 'count more' than others" problem, but would go a long way toward making it harder to win the electoral college but lose the popular vote.

And any non-arbitrary reason the current state divisions are better than this?
Well, if you're serious, I would say that shifting to that map would be non-trivial (to say the least), so without a compelling reason why using that map would be better (and I don't find "there would be fifty states with equal population" to be a compelling reason, both because they wouldn't stay equal for long and because I'm the guy who's okay with the current electoral college in the first place), staying with our current map makes more sense.

Of course, that map is cool anyway, but that's neither here nor there.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#56662: Jun 18th 2013 at 7:09:41 PM

@tclittle: Your state constitution grants Texas the right to split into five smaller states if it so wishes. That's just giving some of the seperated states the chance to join with others.

@Braeburn: State pride is a shitty reason to render voters in populated states inconsequential.

And now, a moment to remember Gary Webb.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56663: Jun 18th 2013 at 7:15:28 PM

[up]

All voters not in swing states are inconsequential. tongue

Google files petition to publish number of FISA requests for user information

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#56664: Jun 18th 2013 at 7:15:46 PM

[up][up] The problem with that, besides the fact that most Texans may not know about the clause, is that most Texans identify as Texan just as much as they do as Americans.

The only ways you'd be able to split Texas up is to either give Texans a good enough reason to, or force them, and I don't think you could convince a majority to do so.

edited 18th Jun '13 7:15:59 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56667: Jun 18th 2013 at 8:09:49 PM

Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-SC) Says Congress Should Revisit Questions About Obama’s ‘Validity’

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#56668: Jun 18th 2013 at 8:30:42 PM

~opens mouth~ ... ~closes mouth and shakes head~

I give up for now. Can we please get some saner* minds in office this Congressional election?

* no one who goes into politics right now is 100% sane

edited 18th Jun '13 8:30:52 PM by Belian

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56669: Jun 18th 2013 at 8:44:17 PM

Few philosophies are entirely without merit. Libertarians make sense on a number of issues; the problem is that those are outnumbered by the ones they're crazy on.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#56670: Jun 18th 2013 at 8:49:29 PM

[up]Genuinely curious, what are those issues in your opinion?

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56671: Jun 18th 2013 at 9:06:39 PM

It seems Ron Paul is enjoying a Sarah Palin retiement: all the fun of politics without any of the responsibilities.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56672: Jun 18th 2013 at 10:56:44 PM

Senator Alexander (R-TN): Dems won't go 'nuclear' because Reid fears Yucca Mountain vote

edited 18th Jun '13 10:57:16 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#56673: Jun 18th 2013 at 11:22:09 PM

I've heard of that before. I somehow doubt that Yucca Mountain would get a simple majority or that Reid wouldn't have other means to prevent a vote - he's been rather good at obstruction before.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56674: Jun 19th 2013 at 6:33:07 AM

@Topazan: Libertarians generally advocate for a lack of legislative interference in people's private lives, which seems like they ought to support equality for gays, racial minorities, and the like. They also tend to be against the War on Drugs, in favor of unrestricted migration, and do not support acting as the world's police force. Those are all things that I generally agree with. They have some odd economic ideas, though, which sabotage most of the good will I bear for them otherwise. I am not in favor of minarchism when it comes to social programs, regulation, and taxation.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KnightofNASA Since: Jan, 2013
#56675: Jun 19th 2013 at 7:52:35 AM

[up] Their attitude toward global warming pisses me off as well. "Oh, the Earth deserve the damage we make on her! It is essential for successful business!" On their economic belief, I must say, where I came from has a system very close to Laissez-faire. Look how that turns out for the peasants.

Why is there libertarian ads jumping around the page, ad server?


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