TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#56501: Jun 15th 2013 at 12:29:10 PM

[up][up] In general (at least around here) "Holiday trees" are decorated to be multifaith, and "Christmas trees" are Christian only.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#56502: Jun 15th 2013 at 12:33:20 PM

Yeah, I'm a culturally Jewish atheist and I say a 'holiday tree' is a dumb idea for school. Because people don't celebrate generic holidays. You can say, 'happy holidays', because yes, there are more than one near the same time. Same reason, you can have a 'holiday party'. But, just have a christmas tree and a menorah and a 'make your New Years resolutions' activity and whatever else. Seriously.

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#56503: Jun 15th 2013 at 12:34:36 PM

[up] The only problem with that, is schools don't usually have the budget to do it like that.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#56504: Jun 15th 2013 at 12:37:06 PM

[up][up][up] Is there a difference between the trees? Do the trees look different?

[up] Then Education isn't one of the topmost priorities of Government and Votersnote , as it is over in Britain?

edited 15th Jun '13 12:38:59 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#56505: Jun 15th 2013 at 12:40:45 PM

[up] Yes, they're decorated differently. Christmas trees don't have prayer flags on them. tongue

And yeah, education is constantly getting axed over here, and they've gotten to the point where they're closing schools to keep within the budget.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#56506: Jun 15th 2013 at 12:51:07 PM

Soi it all right if we call it by it's original name, the Yule Tree? Since you know, Christmas is just a rip off of the original Norse celebration? Can we dedicate someone to Odin and hang them from it? Pretty please?

Trump delenda est
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56507: Jun 15th 2013 at 1:02:58 PM

I'd also point out, at leats in the midwest, a lot of christians would throw a fit over their kids being taught about the menorah as anything other than a weirdo curiosity used by weirdos who arent christian.

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#56508: Jun 15th 2013 at 1:03:31 PM

Okay, I think I have a more concrete reason why the idea annoys me a bit. Decorating a tree has nothing to do with how any holiday but christmas is celebrated, so it's actually still acknowledging christianity's primacy. You can put menorah ornaments on it, still says nothing about how and why chanukkah is actually celebrated.

You want a neutral holiday activity, make an actually neutral holiday activity. Like, I don't know, drawing how your family celebrates a winter holiday (includes something like vacation and New Years for atheist families).

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56509: Jun 15th 2013 at 1:04:29 PM

@Barkey: Either you celebrate nondenominationally or you include all religions. Anything else violates the First Amendment.

As for this whole deal you seem to have about interrogating prisoners, well, I'm sorry for you and your mates, but we have rules of war for a reason. We don't get to suspend our constitution and international treaties because it's inconvenient.

Edit: As I recall interrogation is okay but when you get into torture, it's a no-no.

edited 15th Jun '13 1:10:43 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainKatsura Decoy from    Poland    Since: Jul, 2011
Decoy
#56510: Jun 15th 2013 at 1:05:12 PM

Well, even atheists decorate Christmas tree, at least here in Poland (and probably many Muslims as well). Though, the traditional Polish name for Christmas tree has nothing to do with any religion whatsover.

edited 15th Jun '13 1:05:44 PM by CaptainKatsura

My President is Funny Valentine.
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56511: Jun 15th 2013 at 1:06:10 PM

[up][up][up]

This.

Midwest rural schools at best atm will give some vague service to the fact Chanukkah exists, and it has something to do with 12 nights of presents. and dreidels.

Thats about as far as schools in the rural midwest tend to bother with telling you about it.

IE. "its a weird holiday celebrated by "other" people."

edited 15th Jun '13 1:07:20 PM by midgetsnowman

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56512: Jun 15th 2013 at 1:11:19 PM

My family celebrates Christmas, but not as a religious holiday.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56513: Jun 15th 2013 at 1:34:15 PM

I just don't particularly care. I was raised Jewish in the most half-hearted way possible by my rather non-religious mom, who has just about relented and just calls it Christmas now herself.

Hanukkah sucks.

But essentially, I don't particularly care. Christmas is dominant in pretty much the entire US amongst both Christian and irreligious families. Calling it "Happy Holidays" or a "Holiday Tree" just sounds like forced political correctness, which makes me recoil in disgust on principle. It shouldn't really be a big enough deal for either side to be up in arms about.

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#56514: Jun 15th 2013 at 1:46:18 PM

Eh, none of my (mixed, by the way - father's from a christian background) family's religious either. But as far as I'm concerned, that's not the point. The point is, if you're going to go to the trouble of acknowledging that there's more than one holiday being celebrated, let that actually be acknowledged instead of just, 'yeah, this is a holiday some of those other folks celebrate. Why? How? We don't care what it's about, we're just required to pay lip service that it exists. Now move on and we can get to the good part.'

edited 15th Jun '13 1:47:26 PM by TheGirlWithPointyEars

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56515: Jun 15th 2013 at 2:24:49 PM

I guess I just don't particularly care either way. I just sort of go "Oh, it's Christmas. Time to mail shit to various family members and friends, and for some of them to do the same. Maybe have a few parties and get drunk."

I don't particularly care what it's called, but if the vast majority of people call it Christmas, lets just call it Christmas. It's kind of become a commercialized irreligious holiday here in the US. It just sounds like being a pedantic asshole when people are like "NU UH IT'S ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE TOO."

That's not the point. I don't know a single jew who's ever wanted to be up in arms about Christmas overshadowing Hanukkah. When I was growing up it was "Man, Hanukkah sucks. Christmas is way better." Unless you're actually religious, in which case you care about it in your context.

I just don't get the feeling that this is ever about other religions being left out, I always get the feeling this conversation is about atheists and other irreligious types feeling like being assholes about it and caring way more than they should. Like a little kid saying "LOOK AT TIMMY MOMMY HE'S GETTING SPECIAL TREATMENT STOP BEING NICE TO HIM!"

I just can't really understand why anyone gives a shit about how it's done in school, so I kind of side on the Christians with this one. It's just sort of always been referred to as being Christmas in schools, to both Christians and non-Christians, and it just feels stupid to take that away from the vast majority out of spite. The overwhelming majority of people in America, both Christian and non-Christian, refer to it as Christmas, so lets just keep calling it Christmas. It's really fucking obnoxious to be the squeaky wheel over something so inconsequential that has been this way for so long.

edited 15th Jun '13 2:27:04 PM by Barkey

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#56516: Jun 15th 2013 at 2:30:18 PM

Christmas is already pretty secular thanks to commercial influences. If you're that desperate for a completely secular holiday, just celebrate Boxing Day.

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#56517: Jun 15th 2013 at 2:31:45 PM

[up][up]How do you feel about Christians boycotting businesses that say "Happy Holidays" and whining and complaining about "WAR ON CHRISTMAS OUR RELIGION IS UNDER ATTACK!!"?

edited 15th Jun '13 2:32:13 PM by Morgikit

TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#56518: Jun 15th 2013 at 2:40:56 PM

Except, they're not even vaguely similar in how they're celebrated except for the time of year. Oh, and presents, which, yeah, is probably the important part to kids anyway.

Channukah is not 'Jewish Christmas'. It's just not. None of the other winter holidays are like it either. I really don't care whether people acknowledge it or not, but it shouldn't be turned into what it isn't.

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56519: Jun 15th 2013 at 2:41:21 PM

[up][up]

I dunno how he feels, But I antagonize em on purpoose because their whiny screaming is hilarious.

[up]

Its even worse for black kids since the average WASP opinion on kwanzaa ia "lol fake holiday designed to distract people from jesus"

edited 15th Jun '13 2:42:30 PM by midgetsnowman

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#56520: Jun 15th 2013 at 2:45:26 PM

[up] If they even hear about it at all. I think it was briefly mentioned in elementary school, but that's it.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#56521: Jun 15th 2013 at 3:27:29 PM

since the average WASP opinion on kwanzaa ia "lol fake holiday designed to distract people from jesus"

That's...not entirely untrue. Karenga was pretty anti-Christian and it was a huge part of why he made the holiday, but Kwanzaa got pared down really quickly into a supplemental and religiously-neutral holiday when he realized most of his supporters took issue with that.

edited 15th Jun '13 3:31:26 PM by Pykrete

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56522: Jun 15th 2013 at 4:06:10 PM

[up]

Nonetheless, it kinda comes off as infinitely dismissive and snide when the standard response to anyone bringing up Kwanzaa is "thats a fabricated holiday" nevermind y'now Chrstmas is too.

at least thats my experience with holidays in the midwest. at best Channukah gets lip service as "a shittier christmas for jews" and kwanzaa gets "lol fake holiday" as though Christmas wasnt some cocked up oversentimental raping of Yule Mostly paid lip service to except by christian zealots we have to appease so they dont cry persecution..

edited 15th Jun '13 4:08:00 PM by midgetsnowman

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#56523: Jun 15th 2013 at 4:12:34 PM

Can't we just call them X-mas trees?

'Cause, the way I see it, at this point secular Christmas (with gift giving and trees and egg nog) is one holiday, and religious Christmas (with nativity scenes and such) is a completely different holiday that happens to share the same name and fall on the same day as secular Christmas. It's like how the word "holiday" means "holy day", but its definition has drifted enough over time that it can be used for completely secular purposes.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#56524: Jun 15th 2013 at 4:19:58 PM

Actually, X-Mas is also a Christian term. The X is a chi, and Christos.

I maintain that there's still Boxing Day.

edited 15th Jun '13 4:20:30 PM by Pykrete

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#56525: Jun 15th 2013 at 4:38:25 PM

Happy Christmahanukwanzaakah to you.


Total posts: 417,856
Top