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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yeah, I'm a culturally Jewish atheist and I say a 'holiday tree' is a dumb idea for school. Because people don't celebrate generic holidays. You can say, 'happy holidays', because yes, there are more than one near the same time. Same reason, you can have a 'holiday party'. But, just have a christmas tree and a menorah and a 'make your New Years resolutions' activity and whatever else. Seriously.
She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog
Yes, they're decorated differently. Christmas trees don't have prayer flags on them.
And yeah, education is constantly getting axed over here, and they've gotten to the point where they're closing schools to keep within the budget.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -DrunkscriblerianOkay, I think I have a more concrete reason why the idea annoys me a bit. Decorating a tree has nothing to do with how any holiday but christmas is celebrated, so it's actually still acknowledging christianity's primacy. You can put menorah ornaments on it, still says nothing about how and why chanukkah is actually celebrated.
You want a neutral holiday activity, make an actually neutral holiday activity. Like, I don't know, drawing how your family celebrates a winter holiday (includes something like vacation and New Years for atheist families).
She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog@Barkey: Either you celebrate nondenominationally or you include all religions. Anything else violates the First Amendment.
As for this whole deal you seem to have about interrogating prisoners, well, I'm sorry for you and your mates, but we have rules of war for a reason. We don't get to suspend our constitution and international treaties because it's inconvenient.
Edit: As I recall interrogation is okay but when you get into torture, it's a no-no.
edited 15th Jun '13 1:10:43 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
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This.
Midwest rural schools at best atm will give some vague service to the fact Chanukkah exists, and it has something to do with 12 nights of presents. and dreidels.
Thats about as far as schools in the rural midwest tend to bother with telling you about it.
IE. "its a weird holiday celebrated by "other" people."
edited 15th Jun '13 1:07:20 PM by midgetsnowman
My family celebrates Christmas, but not as a religious holiday.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I just don't particularly care. I was raised Jewish in the most half-hearted way possible by my rather non-religious mom, who has just about relented and just calls it Christmas now herself.
Hanukkah sucks.
But essentially, I don't particularly care. Christmas is dominant in pretty much the entire US amongst both Christian and irreligious families. Calling it "Happy Holidays" or a "Holiday Tree" just sounds like forced political correctness, which makes me recoil in disgust on principle. It shouldn't really be a big enough deal for either side to be up in arms about.
Eh, none of my (mixed, by the way - father's from a christian background) family's religious either. But as far as I'm concerned, that's not the point. The point is, if you're going to go to the trouble of acknowledging that there's more than one holiday being celebrated, let that actually be acknowledged instead of just, 'yeah, this is a holiday some of those other folks celebrate. Why? How? We don't care what it's about, we're just required to pay lip service that it exists. Now move on and we can get to the good part.'
edited 15th Jun '13 1:47:26 PM by TheGirlWithPointyEars
She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating LiveblogI guess I just don't particularly care either way. I just sort of go "Oh, it's Christmas. Time to mail shit to various family members and friends, and for some of them to do the same. Maybe have a few parties and get drunk."
I don't particularly care what it's called, but if the vast majority of people call it Christmas, lets just call it Christmas. It's kind of become a commercialized irreligious holiday here in the US. It just sounds like being a pedantic asshole when people are like "NU UH IT'S ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE TOO."
That's not the point. I don't know a single jew who's ever wanted to be up in arms about Christmas overshadowing Hanukkah. When I was growing up it was "Man, Hanukkah sucks. Christmas is way better." Unless you're actually religious, in which case you care about it in your context.
I just don't get the feeling that this is ever about other religions being left out, I always get the feeling this conversation is about atheists and other irreligious types feeling like being assholes about it and caring way more than they should. Like a little kid saying "LOOK AT TIMMY MOMMY HE'S GETTING SPECIAL TREATMENT STOP BEING NICE TO HIM!"
I just can't really understand why anyone gives a shit about how it's done in school, so I kind of side on the Christians with this one. It's just sort of always been referred to as being Christmas in schools, to both Christians and non-Christians, and it just feels stupid to take that away from the vast majority out of spite. The overwhelming majority of people in America, both Christian and non-Christian, refer to it as Christmas, so lets just keep calling it Christmas. It's really fucking obnoxious to be the squeaky wheel over something so inconsequential that has been this way for so long.
edited 15th Jun '13 2:27:04 PM by Barkey
Except, they're not even vaguely similar in how they're celebrated except for the time of year. Oh, and presents, which, yeah, is probably the important part to kids anyway.
Channukah is not 'Jewish Christmas'. It's just not. None of the other winter holidays are like it either. I really don't care whether people acknowledge it or not, but it shouldn't be turned into what it isn't.
She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating LiveblogThat's...not entirely untrue. Karenga was pretty anti-Christian and it was a huge part of why he made the holiday, but Kwanzaa got pared down really quickly into a supplemental and religiously-neutral holiday when he realized most of his supporters took issue with that.
edited 15th Jun '13 3:31:26 PM by Pykrete
Nonetheless, it kinda comes off as infinitely dismissive and snide when the standard response to anyone bringing up Kwanzaa is "thats a fabricated holiday" nevermind y'now Chrstmas is too.
at least thats my experience with holidays in the midwest. at best Channukah gets lip service as "a shittier christmas for jews" and kwanzaa gets "lol fake holiday" as though Christmas wasnt some cocked up oversentimental raping of Yule Mostly paid lip service to except by christian zealots we have to appease so they dont cry persecution..
edited 15th Jun '13 4:08:00 PM by midgetsnowman
Can't we just call them X-mas trees?
'Cause, the way I see it, at this point secular Christmas (with gift giving and trees and egg nog) is one holiday, and religious Christmas (with nativity scenes and such) is a completely different holiday that happens to share the same name and fall on the same day as secular Christmas. It's like how the word "holiday" means "holy day", but its definition has drifted enough over time that it can be used for completely secular purposes.

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In general (at least around here) "Holiday trees" are decorated to be multifaith, and "Christmas trees" are Christian only.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian