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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#56477: Jun 14th 2013 at 4:39:15 PM

Being batshit crazy must run in the family.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56478: Jun 14th 2013 at 4:41:32 PM

[up][up]

Maybe because Uh..muslims are brown and black people are brown? Maybe?

I dont fucking know.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#56479: Jun 14th 2013 at 5:05:50 PM

If you actually read the article, he's claiming that the FBI spent resources on prosecuting Zimmerman that could/should have been used in preventing the Boston bombing instead. I don't think it's true (and it's certainly hyperbole even if there is some truth to it), but it's not completely pants-on-head insane.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56480: Jun 14th 2013 at 5:21:01 PM

Al Gore: NSA program 'violates' Constitution

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56481: Jun 14th 2013 at 5:23:27 PM

One major benefit to all the talk about PRISM, in my mind, is that on the side of the voters it's sparking awareness and dialogue on the issue of internal security and privacy, while on the Hill it's being divisive amongst Senators and Representatives. I've been a pretty good share of both Dems and Reps taking different sides on this issue.

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56482: Jun 14th 2013 at 5:52:19 PM

[up][up][up]

somehow I doubt the FBI gave enough of a shit about the zimmerman case to even devote many resources at all to it.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56483: Jun 14th 2013 at 5:53:35 PM

Yeah, that isn't really the jurisdiction of the FBI in the first place. It would just be local detectives working the case.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#56485: Jun 14th 2013 at 8:29:29 PM

Congress votes once again to keep the Gitmo detention facility open and to keep the prisoners there.

edited 14th Jun '13 8:29:49 PM by Enkufka

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56487: Jun 15th 2013 at 9:19:09 AM

^^ Unfortunately, Obama doesn't seem to be the type to give straight-talk to the nation about his frustration with Congress, complete with a slide or chart about just how many times they've been annoying on every particular issue.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56488: Jun 15th 2013 at 9:43:12 AM

Personally I don't see what some folks fixation with Gitmo is.

At least people know it exists and it's actual US Military running the place. If Gitmo closed, we would just send all terror-suspects to black sites ran by foreign countries instead. They act like Gitmo is such a horrible place by virtue of its existence, that even if we just kept it as a naval base and got rid of all the detainee operations there, people would still be like "OMG CLOSE GITMO."

I don't think people realize that if Guantanamo Bay closes, there will be even less accountability on what we do with terror suspects than there is currently.

edited 15th Jun '13 9:46:07 AM by Barkey

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#56489: Jun 15th 2013 at 9:48:29 AM

They want to bring them to the continental US, actually (Or at least that's the story I hear).

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#56490: Jun 15th 2013 at 9:54:46 AM

I'm not sure where else to put this, but:

http://www.blackyouthproject.com/2013/05/black-14-year-old-carrying-a-puppy-attacked-by-police-for-giving-them-a-dehumanizing-stare/

This shouldn't have happened. Staring at the police doesn't warrant being assaulted like this.

edited 15th Jun '13 9:59:14 AM by chihuahua0

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56491: Jun 15th 2013 at 9:56:16 AM

Shouldnt, But it doesnt surprise me.

T minus ten minutes till Fox news tries to show the kid had social problems, was a troublemaker at school and his parents smoked crack, therefore its all an anti-white witch hunt.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56492: Jun 15th 2013 at 10:08:00 AM

I think the only real straw I could grasp at here is that they asked him what he was doing and he just walked away. That makes the kid kind of an asshole, but doesn't justify throwing him to the ground.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#56493: Jun 15th 2013 at 10:31:22 AM

The problem with Gitmo is that it completely circumvents our justice system for very little justification and at great expense. If you're working under the assumption that a lack of Gitmo would = equally justice system-circumventing operations in other locations, then yeah, there's no point in closing it. But I and most people who want it closed explicitly wish to do so by incorporating the prisoners into the normal justice system, giving them regular trials and when required putting them into normal prisons.

I have yet to see a convincing argument as to why that would be a bad idea, even if it's completely shut down by Republicans every time it's proposed. Even a cursory examination shows that it's not a huge security risk - and even if it were, I consider it a moral imperative to not sidestep your own criminal justice system every time it turns out to be inconvenient.

(And for the record, since other posters seem to be confused by my sig, I have no problem with the naval base. My signature refers only to 'Guantanamo' because it's a parody of a quote about Rome destroying Carthage, which a Roman politician was famous for appending to his speeches habitually.)

edited 15th Jun '13 10:33:30 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56494: Jun 15th 2013 at 11:02:05 AM

Personally, I think we should have made a decision from the beginning on if this was going to be a military action or a police action. Either let us do our job and take folks like that as prisoners of war, or you can send NYPD to the frigging sandbox.

Not to say that matters in the context of torture, seeing as most types of torture are banned under our own rules regarding things like LOAC, but that's the problem with counter-terrorism, it blurs the lines between how we're supposed to treat this. I personally don't think POW's have any place in the normal criminal justice system, especially considering how limp-wristed ours is.

Doesn't mean I don't think we should be letting go the dudes who shouldn't be in Gitmo in the first place. That's an absolute travesty, I just don't think we should be showing any real kindness or humanity to the ones we know for sure should be there.

edited 15th Jun '13 11:04:17 AM by Barkey

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56495: Jun 15th 2013 at 11:16:05 AM

Well, if we aren't in a war, then it's supposed to be up to local authorities to hold and prosecute prisoners. The NYPD have no place in Afghanistan because it's not their jurisdiction.

If we capture enemy combatants in a "police action", then we turn them over to the locals. If we're in a war, then we take them as prisoners of war and treat them according to the Geneva Convention.

Quasi-secret detention centers where people are held indefinitely without trial or even formal charges is against our Constitution, against the rules of war, against international law, and against common decency.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#56496: Jun 15th 2013 at 11:23:38 AM

Thing is, with prisoners of war, you're supposed to negotiate with the country you took them from to arrange for their eventual release. But I think we all know how well negotiating a prisoner exchange with Al Queada and the Taliban would go over with the American public.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#56497: Jun 15th 2013 at 11:30:03 AM

Rick Perry signs into law a bill protecting holiday celebrations in schools from legal challenges.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#56498: Jun 15th 2013 at 11:36:56 AM

But I think we all know how well negotiating a prisoner exchange with Al Queada and the Taliban would go over with the American public.

Especially when they are not actual countries, just groups within them — the people within them may come from a large number of countries.

Keep Rolling On
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56499: Jun 15th 2013 at 11:41:18 AM

^^

I don't have a problem with it, it even has that caveat saying "As long as another religion is represented as well."

The bill's sponsor, Republican Rep. Dwayne Bohac of Houston, said he drafted it after discovering that his son's school erected a "holiday tree" in December because any mention of Christmas could spark litigation.

And this is kind of why I'm siding with Perry and co. on this one. It's not a fucking holiday tree, if you want to call it one, then go ahead. But I'm not even a Christian, and it's still a fucking "Christmas Tree". I've got no problem with teachers saying so as well.

If we capture enemy combatants in a "police action", then we turn them over to the locals. If we're in a war, then we take them as prisoners of war and treat them according to the Geneva Convention.

That's cool, let's just have more of us die because we completely and utterly lack any form of HUMINT. We can let the corrupt locals cut them loose so they can keep coming at us over and over again until we kill them before they surrender, or we can give them 3 hots and a cot and tell them they don't have to tell us anything. That's smart when you're in a fucking war.

When it's my ass on the line, I don't particularly give a flying fuck about any of those turds that we manage to capture. They're only worth the intelligence that we can pry out of them. That being said, I would say my guidelines for what I consider torture are a little more.. stringent, than what the CIA considers "not torture". But they're the professionals, not me. I'll tell them they're going too far when I'm the one with a graduate level degree in psychology and can say what works and what doesn't.

edited 15th Jun '13 11:46:54 AM by Barkey

midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56500: Jun 15th 2013 at 12:08:32 PM

[up]

I dont mind calling it a christmas tree. I mind that people like perry dont seem to recognize other religions as "real"


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