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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56451: Jun 13th 2013 at 7:47:33 PM

Obama is indeed a centrist compared to what many Democrats were hoping they had voted for. He's made some strides to enact some progressive agenda items, but is vastly too conciliatory for what we need right now and desperately needs to find better advisers.

I wouldn't go so far as to call him a con man, but I can see why someone might think it.

Edited because I'm an idiot.

edited 13th Jun '13 7:52:28 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#56452: Jun 13th 2013 at 7:48:14 PM

Ralph Nader? Libertarian? Are you sure you're not confusing him with someone else?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56453: Jun 13th 2013 at 7:51:53 PM

Er... maybe I am. Nader is... crap. Oh, he's a Green candidate. Never mind.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#56454: Jun 13th 2013 at 8:43:25 PM

If my concern is that the government is overstepping it's bounds, then why would I trust the government to self-moderate?
Because the the government is not a single monolithic entity. The system was designed with checks and balances in place specifically so that any one person or group within the government (like, for example, the NSA) would be stopped by a different part of the government. This quite intentionally doesn't rely on anyone's good intentions — if the NSA is doing something improper, then someone else will try to stop them, whether their motivations are "this is an outrageous overstepping of your legal authority and the American people will not stand for it" or "hey asshole, you're butting in on my turf, stop that shit".

What would worry me is if the NSA had made attempts to avoid those checks and balances, but there's nothing to suggest that that's the case.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56455: Jun 13th 2013 at 9:00:48 PM

^

I don't trust "someone else" to stop the government from overstepping its bounds, and I've worked for it my entire adult life.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56457: Jun 14th 2013 at 8:49:59 AM

Sarah Palin's favorite job: all the commentary, none of the responsibility.

Anyway, going back to the earlier debate over whether DDOS against the NSA would constitute terrorism or civil disobedience: I roughly agree with the reasoning that it counts as terrorism, but my question is, is it possible to apply civil disobedience to a surveillance program?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56458: Jun 14th 2013 at 9:09:40 AM

The most obvious form of "resistance" would be conceptually akin to a boycott — that is, don't use the information services that are known to permit PRISM access, and/or use encryption, proxies, and other kinds of secure communication that evade it.

You aren't actually disobeying any laws by doing that, though (depending on your country, of course).

edited 14th Jun '13 9:10:41 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#56459: Jun 14th 2013 at 9:20:04 AM

...You might as well tell people to switch from meat to tofu to protest the factory farming industry. It's just not going to happen.

Actually, modern communication technology probably is a lot more essential to survival than meat, come to think of it.

edited 14th Jun '13 9:24:48 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56460: Jun 14th 2013 at 10:48:33 AM

Exactly. Like it or not, everything you do in the electronic age is recorded and can be accessed by somebody. I am all for centralizing this data collection and providing consumers with simple tools to control who gets access to their information and for what.

That said, governments will always have an overriding interest in this information, which is entirely legal so long as it is subject to appropriate oversight. Wishing otherwise is like wishing that the Sun would turn off.

edited 14th Jun '13 10:49:11 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#56462: Jun 14th 2013 at 11:50:20 AM

The most obvious form of "resistance" would be conceptually akin to a boycott — that is, don't use the information services that are known to permit PRISM access, and/or use encryption, proxies, and other kinds of secure communication that evade it.

You aren't actually disobeying any laws by doing that, though (depending on your country, of course).

That wouldn't really be fair to some of those companies, Verizon, for instance, was given no choice, seeing as it was a court order. The level of choice given to the companies in this matter, regardless of if they were ok with it or not, isn't very visible given the gag order that's been placed on them.

SKJAM Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#56463: Jun 14th 2013 at 2:08:40 PM

A little late, but this video's for Barkey,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrmBAXVjp1s

Yeah, I want better oversight on government secrecy—remember when it turned out one agency wasn't even bothering with the rubber-stamp court?

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56464: Jun 14th 2013 at 2:36:16 PM

Rick Santorum Laments: GOP Didn’t Use ‘You Didn’t Build That’ Enough Against Obama In 2012

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#56465: Jun 14th 2013 at 2:38:52 PM

"We didn't lie and misquote enough to get our guy into office! Oh, the humanity!"

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#56466: Jun 14th 2013 at 2:41:02 PM

@ Barkey: Probably one or two companies were threatened with An Offer They Can't Refuse, as well.

edited 14th Jun '13 2:41:25 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#56468: Jun 14th 2013 at 2:48:10 PM

[up]x4 The GOP really missed the point of what that meant.

edited 14th Jun '13 2:48:30 PM by Zendervai

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#56469: Jun 14th 2013 at 2:48:35 PM

We totally care about you, now let's make it harder for you to not live in poverty on those wages!

tryrar Since: Sep, 2010
#56470: Jun 14th 2013 at 2:49:10 PM

[up][up][up]......there's denial, and then there's THIS

edited 14th Jun '13 2:49:37 PM by tryrar

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#56471: Jun 14th 2013 at 2:51:05 PM

I have no idea what Ryan wants to say there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#56473: Jun 14th 2013 at 3:06:25 PM

[up] Ew. If that's a metaphor, please change it. If not...ew.

edited 14th Jun '13 3:06:46 PM by Zendervai

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012

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