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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Donald Trump: Edward Snowden ‘a bad guy’
edited 10th Jun '13 7:27:54 PM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016edited 10th Jun '13 7:14:52 PM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.@Native Jovian: I don't think it works like that. Verizon hasn't been providing the NSA with high level summaries of phone call patterns, they've been providing the records, at least according to the whistleblowers. But ultimately we don't know for certain, because they are keeping it secret.
The best summary
of the situation that I have found. Another source
.
Anyway, doesnt this conversation belong in the other thread?
edited 10th Jun '13 7:25:27 PM by DeMarquis
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.Ron Paul Blasts NSA Defenders On Piers Morgan: ‘You’re Justifying Dictatorship!’
O’Reilly Slams ‘Unconstitutional’ NSA Surveillance: ‘Should Be Shut Down Immediately’
I would very much like Feinstein to give it a rest now kthnx.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.Maybe this is the point you're trying to make, though.
^
This is a particular case where enough people disagree with this move to where it shouldn't be classified, or should have been disseminated further.
We're still a fucking Democracy, and we aren't a good representative democracy if shit like this is going on, how do you specifically decide to vote for people who won't do something like this if you never find out it's going on?
That's what international law is for, the US (or other country) can enact as many "It's okay to deliberately gun down civilians" laws as it likes, those orders are still in violation of international law and anyone who follows them can be tried for war crimes. Though international law has the problem that it's only enforced if the people who approve of it can (and will) kick the but of the people who don't, which can result in problematic situations.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranWhen you don't need probable cause to collect this amount of data and investigate people (and from what the leaker indicated, they are in fact able to go full-out wiretap on a whim contrary to Clapper's claims), you effectively have the power to detain whoever you want — because it's really not that hard to find and trump up stuff to make anyone look suspicious "enough". Cherrypicking stuff on the internet is the easiest fucking thing.
And then you can target dissidents at will. Which, again, has already happened in this very country even without giving that additional tool to do so.
This is not something you're particularly wise to say "well they're not that likely to go crazy with", especially in a country that's already demonstrated the opposite. You're wise to not give them that freely invasive a power at all.
edited 10th Jun '13 9:30:38 PM by Pykrete
But you need a warrant to actually do anything with the data. The data, sitting there on a server, harms no one. I feel like you guys are arguing that having a police force is a terrible breach of civil rights, because once we have people who are paid to detain criminals, all we have to do is change the definition of criminal and SUDDENLY ANYONE CAN BE THROWN IN JAIL FOR ANY REASON!!
There's a ton of unwarranted alarmist hysteria going around, here.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.Obama is no George W. Bush, says Jay Carney
Okay, so would you be opposed to NSA agents randomly picking your door while you're out and snooping around in your home without a reason? Oh it's okay, they still need a warrant to actually do anything with it.
Also, once more, the leaker claims they didn't need a warrant for jack shit. Also, people get detained without charge all the time. Intelligence agencies have been doing that for years.
edited 10th Jun '13 9:38:30 PM by Pykrete
Unanimous Supreme Court Allows Raisin Farmers to Challenge New Deal-Era Farm Control Law
Side Note: The NSA doesn't have agents, it just collects the information. You're probably looking at the FBI or the local Police instead.
Keep Rolling On^
Publicly.
Anyway, that's still a good analogy. I look at it this way:
If Batman didn't feel comfortable having that kind of power, I don't trust the NSA with it. I'm with Fox on this one.
I don't care that they need a warrant to do anything with information they steal from me, it's my fucking information, and they should require a warrant to even possess it. A more apt analogy would be if the law was changed so that police officers could walk into your house whenever you want to search the place, but even if they found something illegal, they would need a warrant to act on their findings and arrest you.
Who would be comfortable with that? I for one don't want police officers to have the ability to just walk into my fucking house without a warrant, even if they don't do it very often because there are so many houses and they want the ones that have the highest likelihood of containing contraband. The entire point is that I don't want uninvited guests coming into my house, I want to be in control of who can come in and look through all my drawers and shit, even if they never exercise that ability.
That's essentially what it is. I demand my right to privacy. I don't give a fuck if it makes it easier for us to catch the bad guys, my civil rights aren't worth that increased security.
edited 11th Jun '13 7:26:16 AM by Barkey

But now they already have it. The point isn't use to me, the point is that they don't need a warrant to get the information. The entire point is that they shouldn't have the ability to dig through our shit in the first place without a reason to be looking.