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DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#56027: Jun 7th 2013 at 4:24:45 PM

I'm still confused about taxes and why the high-class people supposingly pay less than everyone else. Aren't there tax brackets where you pay this percentage of taxes on your first $10k or whatever it is, and then you pay this percentage of taxes on your next amount of money, and so on?

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56028: Jun 7th 2013 at 4:33:02 PM

Yes, but (1) a lot of them get lots of income not from wages but from investments, and investment income is taxed at the capital gains rate, which is far less than the top-bracket tax rate (ilke 15% versus 39%; even mid-range brackets are at like 20%), and (2) tons of deductions and other accounting shenanigans that allow a minimum of taxes to be owed.

And on a more personal level, I can't help but feel a bit defensive and angry when half the signs on businesses in my town are starting to be in spanish and not in english. It's starting to feel like an invasion.

While I disagree with you rather strongly, Barkey, especially as far as policy is concerned, I totally understand the feeling you're talking about.


As for the thing about subpoenaing phone records and civil liberties and whatnot: I have a question: Have we yet asked what the proper balance ought to be in the first place? It seems that outrage over this is predicated on the assumption that an assumed status quo wherein the government should...I guess not have been able to get these phone records or something? — was necessarily a better balance of civil liberties and national security. Is it?

edited 7th Jun '13 4:35:58 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#56029: Jun 7th 2013 at 4:34:10 PM

[up][up]

The thing is. rich people dont have Income. Income implies wealth that comes from a paying job.

The majoity of rich peoples incoming money is from investments and property (IE, Capital gains)

so yes. They have a higher tax rate...on the type of money they get the least of their wealth from.

edited 7th Jun '13 4:34:44 PM by Midgetsnowman

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#56030: Jun 7th 2013 at 4:40:53 PM

Midget, has that number ever been verified? The percentage of income from capital gains I mean?

[up][up] Well Glenn, the line is usually drawn at "cause". As in, you have to actually have a reason, a damn good one, to snoop through someone's calls, Facebook posts, DNA, etc.

Of late, the government decided things like warrants were just too pesky, so let's get all KGB and just spy on the populace. Why? No reason. Just 'cause. The usual retorts, national security, safety, etc.

Enough study history to know how that usually ends.

edited 7th Jun '13 4:43:19 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56031: Jun 7th 2013 at 4:41:09 PM

And on a more personal level, I can't help but feel a bit defensive and angry when half the signs on businesses in my town are starting to be in spanish and not in english. It's starting to feel like an invasion.

I agree so much with this.

Report: Obama ordered overseas target list for US cyberattacks

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#56032: Jun 7th 2013 at 4:57:08 PM

Ok, is it seriously half, or are you guys just exaggerating? Cause this sounds like the people ranting because hotlines *gasp!* have a Spanish option.

edited 7th Jun '13 4:57:51 PM by Morgikit

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#56034: Jun 7th 2013 at 5:12:16 PM

Well Glenn, the line is usually drawn at "cause". As in, you have to actually have a reason, a damn good one, to snoop through someone's calls, Facebook posts, DNA, etc.

Forgive me for playing devil's advocate for a moment, but this is the case for private information. Are phone contacts considered private? Or public, which basically means they're fair game for anyone?

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#56035: Jun 7th 2013 at 5:39:17 PM

Y'know what astonished me? When I saw all the signs in English over in South Korea.

I'm sorry, the US needs to nut up here. Your native and only official language is the lingua franca of the entire world. I know Latin families by the dozen where the grandparents can't hold in depth conversations with their grandchildren because the second generation has almost completely lost their Spanish, as almost always happens to second generation immigrants in English-dominant countries. My younger siblings can barely speak it and I have the Spanish ability of a middle schooler. Get the fuck over yourselves on the language thing. The US is dominated by people who speak English, and at most, in a hundred years it will be dominated by people with Spanish last names who still speak English. Really.

On other things:

Either because the Dems are shit with money and
Stop right there. There's no standard by which Dems are shit with money and the Republicans can be described with any terms more charitable than "fucking atrocious". These are the guys whose presidents have run the biggest deficits in history and left Democratic presidents to clean up the mess. These are the guys who ushered in our homeless problem. These are the guys who gutted our schools to fund the private prison industry. And on a personal note, Barkey, these are the guys who pissed away years of your life in the Middle East, along with years more of the guys who got stop listed, because they weren't willing to listen to Paul Van Riper or anyone else telling them what the real costs were. And before you complain about entitlements, we have to look at how effective programs like SNAP are dollar for dollar compared to what else we could be doing with our budget.

If we're going to judge our politicians, let's make that judgment based in evidence. The Democrats suck, alright? We get it. I know it seems like liberal political culture goes after Republicans with knives bared. But you may want to consider the possibility that we don't worship or even really like the Democrats, and the Republicans are just that bad.

@Maxima: I still say people aren't looking enough to extrapolitical solutions to political problems. Direct action, people. Boycotts and strikes. That shit's hard to ignore.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#56036: Jun 7th 2013 at 5:51:02 PM

Of late, the government decided things like warrants were just too pesky, so let's get all KGB and just spy on the populace.
That's just flat-out not true. They're getting their warrants from FISA, which is a classified court system specifically created for stuff like what they're doing. When you're dealing with national security, anything that's public record is something that your enemies know — so you have to make your spy-hunting secret, or there's no damn point. This system has been around since the '70s, so it's not like this was something created by the Patriot Act or anything.

Also this sort of thing is exactly what I was talking about re: hyperbole on the last page.

edited 7th Jun '13 5:51:26 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#56037: Jun 7th 2013 at 5:57:52 PM

[up][up] No, we will not "get the fuck over ourselves". None of what you said is a good reason for immigrants not to learn English. A country has every right to demand its immigrants speak the native language; this would hold true if the entire world spoke Spanish.

When I saw all the signs in English over in South Korea.

Honestly, I think that's kinda stupid. But it doesn't change my opinion. If you want me to be the bad guy because of that, I'll be the bad guy. I can get used to that.

edited 7th Jun '13 6:00:12 PM by Robotnik

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#56038: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:00:38 PM

And they are learning English. Or, they're stuck in dead-end jobs or cycles of unemployment, relying on their children to buy groceries and ending up unable to speak with their youngest grandchildren. The demands are there. You don't get to ignore them. Have you ever tried getting by in a country without speaking the language? You pick it up, one way or the other.

edited 7th Jun '13 6:00:57 PM by RadicalTaoist

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#56039: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:05:17 PM

Have you ever tried getting by in a country without speaking the language?

No, and I wouldn't. And, just for the record, I know there are plenty of American tourists that want to have it both ways and demand that foreigners address them in English, and I think that's ridiculous.

edited 7th Jun '13 6:05:40 PM by Robotnik

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#56040: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:10:07 PM

<raises hand> Why is bilingualism a bad thing, again? <confused>

I had to learn Afrikaans in school from the age of 6 because it's the de facto lingua franca of South Africa (rather than English)... and I did isiXhosa, too (granted, not very well: the teaching of that sucked in my primary school). It's not the end of the world.

Afrikaaners started learning English at aged 6, as well. <shrugs> And, another language or two were picked up a bit later (usually around age 10 or 11). It was standard.

Afrikaans is the standard second language... so, even if somebody doesn't learn e.g. Setswana, you can still find something to chat in... and make gestures when things get a bit ropey and/or find another language you might share to mix with.

edited 7th Jun '13 6:17:20 PM by Euodiachloris

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56041: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:12:52 PM

[up]

Have you seen how Anglo and French Canadians interact with each other?

Besides I don't like the idea of 2 Americans not being able to understand each other.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#56042: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:13:42 PM

I have to agree with Radical Taoist for once. Us native English speakers are ridiculously privileged, and it's ridiculous to have this sense of entitlement on top of that. You have the choice of being monolingual, and that is a luxury. In other countries, people study English from elementary school. Learning a second language is hard, and failing to master English can ruin your career prospects.

When I was in China, I was extremely grateful for English signs and labels. It was hard enough to get by even with them. I see no problem extending the same courtesy to people in our country.

People always say "They should learn English", but how do you know they aren't? Do you have any idea how long it takes to learn a new language?

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#56043: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:19:32 PM

[up][up]Insta-pigins or creoles with animation — it's a talent. [lol]

And, I don't see why learning the languages of your nearest neighbouring countries is that stupid a move. <_< And, you also do have flavours of French within your own borders. Not to mention other languages. <shrugs>

edited 7th Jun '13 6:22:23 PM by Euodiachloris

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56044: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:21:07 PM

[up][up]

And it's a luxury I want to maintain.

The State Department said late Friday that it turned over 97 pages of documents to congressional investigators examining the administration's response to the Sept. 11 terror attack in Benghazi.

edited 7th Jun '13 6:21:25 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#56045: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:21:42 PM

It seems to me (from my perspective in The Deep South, at least) that people are making a big deal about acknowledging that other languages (and by extension, other cultures) exist.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#56046: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:26:46 PM

Man Who Slit His Wrists Outside Today Show Studio Says He Was Protesting IRS: ‘Going To Kill Me Anyway’

Sigh

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#56047: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:31:24 PM

You don't need to know Spanish to get around or get a job in the U.S. A few signs are in Spanish, big deal. I've seen Chinese signs here and still nobody has trouble navigating. If anything they'll probably still have to put signs in English just so they can attract more business.

[down]..and? Have you seen a successful business leader here who only speaks Spanish? The only ones I know about either speak English or don't do much business outside of their communities.

edited 7th Jun '13 6:35:28 PM by Wildcard

Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#56048: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:31:43 PM

[up][up][up] Can't speak for anyone else, but I just want to be understood when I say something in English, such as if we're in a business relationship or a customer wanting to buy a product. I don't care what anyone does unless it interferes with communication. I don't think that's unreasonable.

edited 7th Jun '13 6:46:48 PM by Robotnik

Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#56049: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:42:43 PM

Is this a serious problem where you are?

Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#56050: Jun 7th 2013 at 6:46:29 PM

[up] Eh, it's an annoyance. Not a big one, but it's there. It's gotten better in recent years, I think.

I'm not saying foreign languages shouldn't be spoken, period, it's just that when it becomes a problem, it's a problem.

edited 7th Jun '13 6:47:15 PM by Robotnik


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