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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#55876: Jun 6th 2013 at 2:57:43 PM

With your own money, your family's, friends' etc. Certainly not by turning it into a resellable commodity, unless I've completely misunderstood what they meant by "bail bond market". If it's just the state selling the accused a bail, that they can't sell back, then it's no market. Market implies reselling.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#55877: Jun 6th 2013 at 3:07:01 PM

[up]

America's problem is that bail is too damn high. Bail bondsmen are a symptom of that.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55878: Jun 6th 2013 at 3:09:28 PM

Most people don't have that kind of money lying around.

I have never been involved in the courts but from what I gather it works like this. You go to them and they agree to give you the money for bail if you pay a fee. You post the money, have the trial, etc. At the end you get the bail money back if the person didn't try to escape or something. You then take the money back to the bondsman. If the person escapes custody or something then you have to pay the entirety of the bail to the bondsman.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#55879: Jun 6th 2013 at 3:10:27 PM

Too damn high?

You then take the money back to the bondsman. If the person escapes custody or something then you have to pay the entirety of the bail to the bondsman.

I am having trouble parsing this sentence.

Also, don't they proportion the bail to the income of the accused?

edited 6th Jun '13 3:12:03 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#55880: Jun 6th 2013 at 3:12:38 PM

@Greenmantle: Remember the Civil Rights Movement?

I repeat: the one where the ones that bucked the party line to do the right thing got immediately voted out of office and their states defected to the other party out of spite in the very next cycle?

There's a market for bail bonds? What the fuck? I knew the US were capitalist but this is quite shocking.

Like every third building in Vegas is a bail bonds place.

edited 6th Jun '13 4:03:51 PM by Pykrete

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#55881: Jun 6th 2013 at 3:41:08 PM

Jaw. Meet floor.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#55882: Jun 6th 2013 at 3:58:10 PM

GOP filibustering rising student interest loans.

Thanks guys. Glad to know the system works.

~~~

Also, can America really do anything about Chinese hackers? I mean, China could just go "Yeah, what the fuck are you going to do about it?"

Because we wouldn't be able to do a damn thing.

CaptainKatsura Decoy from    Poland    Since: Jul, 2011
Decoy
#55883: Jun 6th 2013 at 4:07:39 PM

I remember one alternate scenario in a game in which Roosevelt died of illness long before he could become a President, and series of incompetent presidencies finally triggered all out war between Communists, CSA wannabees, Texas, California and the federal government. Kind of Spanish Civil War but on larger scale. And in that scenario's backstory USA stayed away from WW 1 because Germans weren't stupid to give them cause. Britain and France lost war, and Royal Family fled to Canada as Communists took over the Isles (France was couped as well). German became main colonial power, but as the game starts is in its slow decline as Britain IRL.

My President is Funny Valentine.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55884: Jun 6th 2013 at 4:10:10 PM

The Handle: The way it works is this. When the trial is over whoever posted the bail gets the money back provided you didn't do anything wrong. This person then goes and gives it back to the bondsman. It's like repaying a loan. If a person escapes custody or does something else wrong the state could choose not to return the bail as a penalty. Since you're still obligated to pay back the bondsman your family then has to go and pay it out of their own pocket.

The bail is proportioned based on the income of the accused but most people have very little in the way of savings so while they could technically pay it they don't have that much cash on hand. They could go to the bank for a loan but they generally don't like to deal with criminal cases so instead they go to a bail bondsman.

I'm legitimately surprised that this is such a foreign concept. I thought that's just the way things worked.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#55885: Jun 6th 2013 at 4:25:18 PM

[up]No. It really isn't. I also find the whole US bail thing... weird beyond belief. It makes no practical sense from my perspective, whatsoever.

It's like... C17th bail married insurance companies and threw shotguns into the mix for the resulting baby. <_<

edited 6th Jun '13 4:25:56 PM by Euodiachloris

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55886: Jun 6th 2013 at 4:30:21 PM

[up]Huh, that's interesting. I'm guessing bails in other countries aren't absurdly high to the point where the family doesn't have the money to put up.

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#55887: Jun 6th 2013 at 4:35:18 PM

George W. Obama....

Let that sink in...

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55888: Jun 6th 2013 at 5:17:44 PM

Also, can America really do anything about Chinese hackers? I mean, China could just go "Yeah, what the fuck are you going to do about it?"

Because we wouldn't be able to do a damn thing.

I read a few really detailed reports on the methods being used by different Chinese hacker groups. They go for the lowest common denominator, and mostly target civilian companies outside the government sphere of influence(private sector and not working on gov contracts) as well as a few contractor companies that are within that sphere.

It's mostly really low level spear phishing attacks and things like that which have netted them access, the hackers really aren't using techniques that are all that sophisticated. Plus, the Government isn't really responsible for doing anything to protect the regular private sector companies(nor can they, really) networks. For the contractor companies, the government doesn't run their network infrastructure, a big ass document called the NISPOM sets the security standards that you need to uphold for various levels of government contracts, and I have a feeling some of these contractor companies weren't meeting those standards that were hacked.

In other words, after reading a few rather in-depth reports of exactly how these hackers were getting in, the only real way to fix it is by educating the lower level workforce to be suspicious of fraudulent links and to communicate better with their information protection teams.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55890: Jun 6th 2013 at 5:22:52 PM

I did my studying on this subject when I was a systems admin, if I were allowed to run hog-wild, I could have easily china-proofed our networks, because the biggest thing is social engineering in terms of what they use. They don't really brute force that many of their hacks. Very few.

Stupid people who click stupid links out of curiosity are what get most of these people hacked, combined with a lot of patience and intelligent planning on behalf of these hackers, and possibly some state-side espionage to help things along.

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#55891: Jun 6th 2013 at 5:25:59 PM

Also, using stupid obvious shit for security questions.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#55892: Jun 6th 2013 at 5:44:49 PM

Re: bail bonds. To simplify what Kostya said, bail bondsmen are businesses that loan you money to pay your bail. They aren't resellable commodities as far as I know.

He left out the best part, though. If you skip out on bail, they send bounty hunters after you. Yes, that's a real thing. There was a reality show about such a business.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#55893: Jun 6th 2013 at 5:46:12 PM

@Taoist: The Clinton Administration happened precisely as a result of the Democrats being scared of the voters. More to the point, it was a reverse of what's happening to the Republicans now.

In 1984, the Democratic Party had become too liberal for the majority's tastes and had fallen on its ass. Reagan was popular, his platform resonated with the voters, and the Democrats had absolutely no credibility on foreign policy (which in The '80s was as important an issue to the average voter as economics). The Democrats responded by doubling down. Liberalism hadn't failed, the Democrats had failed liberalism, and had to return to the True Faith and become ever more liberal. They started ostracizing conservative Democrats, trying to force the party into lockstep to regain power.

Then the Democratic Leadership Council came around and said "Hey, guys? Maybe we should try listening to the voters for once. They don't want taxes, they don't want gun control, and they want a bit of interventionism. Let's see if we can't update our platform for the '90s and actually win some elections." And they got Clinton on the ballot, and the rest was history.

In other words, exactly what Karl Rove is trying and failing to do now.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#55894: Jun 6th 2013 at 5:47:51 PM

[up] The More Things Change.....eh?

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55895: Jun 6th 2013 at 5:53:05 PM

[up]

Pretty much. The question is whether anyone can drag the tea party kicking and screaming away from the toy chest long enough to rewrite the republicans in a similar way.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#55896: Jun 6th 2013 at 5:55:03 PM

[up] Chris Christie? Bobby Jindal? Colin Powell?

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55897: Jun 6th 2013 at 5:55:52 PM

[up]

Jindal has a bad tendency to play to the crazies. Colin Powell's been ostracized as a RINO. Same with Christie in some circles thanks to hugging Obama.

edited 6th Jun '13 5:56:07 PM by Midgetsnowman

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#55898: Jun 6th 2013 at 6:06:07 PM

Personally, I think that's one reason why those labelled RINOs should club together to form a core, dissident group of conservative thought more openly. Even if that means a new party. If you start gathering enough support to split the current Republicans away from the Tea Party by slowly gathering them to you... fine.

And, even some of those who've split with the GOP and gone Dem might wish to have an alternative.

Hey, you've been given a possible animal: use it as a weapon... and rub the idiots who've lost the plot's noses in it: rhinos do have pointy bits, all the better to act as symbols of criticism. Joining back up to form a renewed Republican Party once the nutters are isolated would always be on the cards a couple of decades down the road, if such a split should occur.

edited 6th Jun '13 6:06:23 PM by Euodiachloris

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#55899: Jun 6th 2013 at 6:19:12 PM

I repeat: the one where the ones that bucked the party line to do the right thing got immediately voted out of office and their states defected to the other party out of spite in the very next cycle?
Yes. They were scared because people marched on Washington, and on state capitals, in numbers that had not been seen in a generation. They were scared because cities had been brought to a grinding halt by sit-ins and strikes. You'd have to be scared as hell to commit political suicide like that.

@Ramidel: I don't mean scared of Democratic primaries, I mean scared of actual people. Were there massive civil disobedience campaigns during the Reagan presidency I was unaware of?

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#55900: Jun 6th 2013 at 6:26:36 PM

.....A long time ago; at a primary not so far away......

(FANFARE PLAYS)

LEGISLATIVE WARS: EPISODE VII - A NEW HOPE

War! Tumult! Discord! It is time of uncertainty and unrest in the country known as the United States of America. The REPUBLICAN PARTY, once a group of noble statesmen who maintained peace and kept the crazy hippie liberals in check; has become corrupted. Causing women, dark people, immigrants, and gays to scurry in fear, a group of freedom-fighters led by BARACK OBAMA have struck back, weakening the party, and enraging the vile TEA PARTY. The Tea Party unveils it's latest evil plan: VOTER SUPPRESSION! A plan that when complete, would signal the end of open democracy in America.

But all is not lost. A group of renegades names McCain, Powell, Jindal, and a charming rogue Jersey pirate named Christie conspire to unleash their own secret weapon, codenamed R.I.N.O. This top-secret plan, if it succeeds; would destroy the Tea Party, make the Democrats calm down, and restore honor to the Republican Party.......

edited 6th Jun '13 6:30:59 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor

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