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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AnSTH Lawful Evil Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#55726: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:15:11 PM

I'll be paying back my federal student loans for the next 15-25 years with a fuckton of interest on top. So don't worry about your tax dollars being wasted there. >:(

But that's a story for another time.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#55727: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:15:36 PM

You don't need a degree to become an artist, it could make it much easier to learn with a teacher though. Explore your options other than college, just keep it on the table.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55728: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:15:48 PM

[up][up][up]Not all engineering or teaching students are successful either. Why should they get special treatment? A well educated populace is a benefit to the whole nation just as much as roads are.

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:16:10 PM by Kostya

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55729: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:16:06 PM

[up][up][up][up]

even most successful atrtists had to plug away for years.

One of my acquaintances in the local art world can sell pieces for upwards of 200,000 dollars these days when he's lucky.

He's 70+ years old, and only in the last 5 years has reached that level of notoriety. before that he made his living teaching at a community college.

Thats pretty much your life as a studio artist except for the very lucky ones 9which is why I majored in the far more employable graphic design)

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:18:40 PM by Midgetsnowman

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#55730: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:37:34 PM

I don't see why business is considered a "safe" degree. It doesn't seem to lead to one particular career path and starting a business is not something which requires a degree.

[up]I'd recommend freelance for that.

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:41:04 PM by Wildcard

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55731: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:52:37 PM

[up]

because everyone and their sister thinks they can start a successful business,

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#55732: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:56:16 PM

Liberal arts teaches people how to think critically and creatively. Most other degrees teach people how to do things. Both have their uses, and both are important.

I have heard quotes from people who have explicitly said they'd rather hire a liberal arts major and teach them the job basics than hire someone who majored in the field directly related to the job, because it's easier to teach the job basics than it is to teach creative and critical thinking.

Liberal arts degrees may not have a direct one-to-one correspondence to fields that other degrees have, but that doesn't mean they aren't employable.

Refraining from much more vitriolic rant on the subject.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55735: Jun 3rd 2013 at 9:33:35 PM

[up][up]

if you get into a field like science for the money, then nobody would be a scientist.

And you really cant argue we'd be better off scientifically for not having archaeologists.

edited 3rd Jun '13 9:34:03 PM by Midgetsnowman

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#55736: Jun 3rd 2013 at 11:58:27 PM

Jesse Ventura Rants On Bradley Manning, IRS, And Suing Navy SEAL’s Widow With A Skeptical Piers Morgan

edited 4th Jun '13 12:00:40 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#55737: Jun 4th 2013 at 2:08:22 AM

I don't agree with Barkey or Maxima often, but I, too, think you shouldn't invest on something that won't give you financial stability unless you already have some. Maybe it means that only the rich can do art, but it would also mean that less people would be poor.

On the other hand, I also agree that there is also a need for artists. I wouldn't be against some measure of scholarships for art, just not for all aspiring artists.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#55738: Jun 4th 2013 at 3:17:11 AM

Art is definitely vital to any nation. I've lived in a nation that only cared about technical skills... we sucked.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#55739: Jun 4th 2013 at 4:27:29 AM

What is the purpose of collages/universities?

  • teach job skills
  • prepare for the "real world" (including taking care of yourself)
  • build contacts/connections
  • give you experience in multiple fields so that you can chose the one that "fits" you
  • research

And those are the purposes off the top of my head—I'm sure there are others. It seems like everyone is addressing a couple of these, but not all of them.

You also are leaving out the benefits of an Associate of Arts degree. I am REALLY GOOD at math so I decided to try going down the mathematician/engineer route. It was boring and I didn't keep up with the homework (too easy to keep my focus). So I dropped down to Community Collage, took classes in a variety of subjects, got my AA, and found out that I sort of liked the Accounting work (more pattern-finding/understanding than strait math). I now have a BS in Accounting. Should not not get assistance for those classes that I took with no real purpose in mind even though they helped me define what career I wanted to go into?

Though I do agree that Universities (not so much Community Collages) should have a stronger business focus and better prepare you for the "business world"—not just give you the "job tools/skills"—no matter what subject you are talking about.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55740: Jun 4th 2013 at 4:30:30 AM

We still need people to do the jobs on that list though. That includes stuff like archeologists/anthropologists, physical fitness, commercial art and graphic design, and historians. True they're probably not as vital as other degrees but we still need people to do these jobs.

If we pushed everybody into science, medicine, engineering, law, etc. then we'd probably wind up with far too many people in those fields which would increase unemployment even more.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#55741: Jun 4th 2013 at 5:55:22 AM

[up][up]All the colleges I know completely and utterly fail at any of those things. If you aim for academic excellency, you'll be ripe to become... a professor... with no connections... who does nothing but work very hard, all day, every day. You hae to risk or even sacrifice academic success for the sake of achieving all of these other things.

edited 4th Jun '13 5:55:48 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55742: Jun 4th 2013 at 7:50:41 AM

I should be more specific, when I use an example like Liberal Arts, I mean a very generic degree. If you want to be an archaeologist, get a degree in archaeology or a similarly related degree. Don't get some bullshit generic degree.

Also on that list would be a good share of degrees with the word "Management" in them. Having a degree in some form of "Management" shouldn't mean you're qualified to jump ahead of regular folks who have job experience.

A good example would be this, don't get a degree from an expensive university in "International Relations" if you aren't planning on going into some form of work with the state department, or as a politician, or another similarly affiliated field. Or at least go for it, but don't make me pay for it. I'd rather help out people who had a decent plan, but had shitty luck. Not people who had no plan, and popped out of college with a useless degree in underwater basket weaving because they wanted to learn how, as a sarcastic example. I don't want to be compelled against my will to help people who didn't plan for their future whatsoever because they would rather do what they wanted instead of doing what common sense and logic would dictate.

edited 4th Jun '13 7:53:15 AM by Barkey

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#55743: Jun 4th 2013 at 8:09:29 AM

Why are you worried about helping anyone else with it? As it currently stands the student has to pay it and the loans are not erased. Having a higher interest rate would just make it harder for the holders to pay it back without defaulting.

Loan Cancellation is very rare.

edited 4th Jun '13 8:11:38 AM by Wildcard

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55744: Jun 4th 2013 at 8:23:03 AM

as I recall. the only way to get a student loan cancelled is to either die or end up so crippled and invalid that theres no possible way you could ever work again.

this ironically hurts worse for "serious" degrees like doctors.

Because when you have 12 years of student loans to get your medical degree, and are now looking down the barrel of expensive malpractice prwemiums, you cant afford to go into General Practician.

edited 4th Jun '13 8:31:03 AM by Midgetsnowman

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#55745: Jun 4th 2013 at 10:10:11 AM

Speaking of arts degrees, what's your take on this?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#55746: Jun 4th 2013 at 10:15:55 AM

Found out another thing about the CNRC report from a few pages ago. Right after the titbit about how the GOP is seen as the opposite of tolerant, open minded, and diverse, there was a section which read the following

In focus groups in January, the report said, young voters were asked to list leaders of the Democratic Party. "They named prominent former or currently elected officials: Pelosi, the Clintons, Obama, Kennedy, Gore. When those same respondents were asked to name Republican leaders, they focused heavily on media personalities and commentators: Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck."

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55749: Jun 4th 2013 at 10:56:29 AM

@The Handle: It sounds like something written by a snobby Engineering student who has to take it out on people who wanted to learn about the arts while all he did in college was learn numbers and numbers and then some numbers on the side and just has to stroke his own ego about how much better his degree is.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#55750: Jun 4th 2013 at 11:09:23 AM

It's amazing how every time I show a "stuff white people like" article to someone who likes that particular thing, they're quick to peg the writer into a particular niche... Always an Ad Hominem in the form of "he's prejudiced and has a bad case of sour grapes". Also, just FYI, there's a lot more to Engineering than numbers; you're probably thinking of Accountancy.

Not that I'm endorsing it*

, but I'd like some criticism of the points it makes.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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