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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#55701: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:22:38 PM

[up] You and me both, my sister.

It was an honor
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55702: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:30:34 PM

Heck, they could do a lot of good by fixing the repayment system. As I understand it I have to pay back my loan even if I can't get a job in my desired field. That's beyond stupid in my mind. I wouldn't be as hostile to a rate increase if they at least changed that part.

To be fair, it is kind of your fault if you pick a shitty major.

"ZOMG I GOT A LIBERAL ARTS DEGREE AND CAN'T GET A JOB!"

And I can comment on that, I used to be a psych major, and psych degrees are worth shit until you get to the graduate level.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55703: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:34:56 PM

[up]So we're basically going to discourage kids from pursuing certain fields just because it might be harder for it to pay off? That doesn't sound like a good idea to me. You're basically forcing a person working a minimum wage job to pay back over 120k dollars because the job market is shit, something that is entirely out of their control.

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:35:06 PM by Kostya

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55704: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:35:41 PM

[up][up]

to be fair, a lot of us who pick liberal arts or fine arts majors (except for idiots) either intend to go for a graduate degree or a masters, or are going for the love of the subject regardless of financial value.

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:36:14 PM by Midgetsnowman

Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#55705: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:36:13 PM

"because for every sane moderate conservative theres 6 wingnuts trying to hijack the party fro under you. "

I don't think that is strictly true... I think you only hear about 1 "sane moderate conservative" for every "6 wingnuts", but the reality is that there are about equal numbers of both—or at least less of a discrepancy than 1:6. Possibly the "best" thing sane conservatives could do right now is peaceful protests to get media attention (they certainly won't get media attention by saying "calm down" while the alternative makes better news).

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#55706: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:36:46 PM

Yeah, well, being able to eat is pretty big bonus, though, wouldn't you agree?

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55707: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:37:16 PM

[up][up]

well. the real problem is the primaries.

because the wingnuts are the single most likely to vote demographic, and therefore control the republican primaries.

[up]

sure it is. But from the view of someone like me, maybe I wont land a cushy graphic arts job after college, or a photography job. or any job but a waiter in a restauraunt in the city. But at least I wont have spent 20,000 dollars on a subject I hate and have wasted my college experience on a subject I only studied to make money.

Thats what I view as one of the major reasons I hate republican logic about student loans. "Oh, you should study a subject that pays well" means essentially "if you're too poor to afford college without federal aid, you only deserve to work in fields that are high profit, not anything you actually want to pursue"

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:40:42 PM by Midgetsnowman

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#55708: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:42:00 PM

[up] They have a lot of sway but they don't have complete control of the primaries (yet).

If they did Herman Cain would have been the 2012 Republican Presidential candidate.

Watchdog finds new TVs, surplus gym equipment, and unused furniture at filthy EPA warehouse

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:42:49 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55709: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:43:27 PM

No, I'm saying don't get a degree in stupid shit that won't get you a job. I don't want our taxpayer money giving out free degrees in liberal arts and basket weaving.

I tell every college student I know to have a fucking plan. I always tell younger folks that the way they should choose what they do in college is to look for jobs that exist that they want, and then look at the requirements for said job, and then pursue those requirements in education.

I do not want to be paying off the student loans of some kid who got a degree which isn't going to have a snowballs chance in hell of getting them a job. Now look, if you get an engineering degree or something and can't get a job, then I can see that. It's an actual surprise when you get a practical degree and can't find a job.

But seriously? Who the fuck majors in something useless that they know IN ADVANCE will most likely not get them a job? My viewpoint on college is that it is specifically there to be essentially job training. You go to college because you want a career in a certain field, not because "Oh I want to learn how to do things I'm interested in!" You can do that shit on your own dime. To me, a degree is for job training. If you're lucky, then you can get a degree that involves subject material in your major that you also happen to enjoy, which is what I did.

It's really poor planning to pursue a degree without first thinking "What type of doors will this degree open for me?" and I don't want to pay for some one elses poor planning.

Anyhow, this would probably be better for its own thread or a general thread on college education.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#55710: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:44:39 PM

Am I going to get yelled at if I agree with Bark?

It was an honor
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55711: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:46:30 PM

Nah. I disagree with him, but my view is college should be something you to to broaden your horizons and your knowledge base, and think anyone who thinks college is for job training is an arrogant fuckwit.

I still like Bark as a person, though.

Its one of the big questions behind the debate anyhow. Whether college is for job training or improving the minds of young people.

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:47:04 PM by Midgetsnowman

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55712: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:47:45 PM

[up]It mainly is job training but I agree that that's not all it should be. The two are not mutually exclusive.

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:48:05 PM by Kostya

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#55713: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:50:50 PM

College isn't for job training?

The leaders of the House Armed Services Committee on Monday rejected a proposal from President Obama to cap executive pay for defense contractors at $400,000, the level of Obama’s annual salary.

@Barkey as someone in the military, was this a good or bad decision?

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:52:45 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#55714: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:52:46 PM

I disdain all those dilettante psych majors too, but the viewpoint has some serious problems.

First: what happens if you pick a major that does have plausible job prospects but you're shut out of them?

Second: most professional arts careers (animators, UI, graphic design) tend to demand as much or more education than engineering, etc.

and think anyone who thinks college is for job training is an arrogant fuckwit.

The other problem is that right now it has to be. Employers now expect you to come in to the field knowing things that a couple decades ago they would teach you. Entry-level positions in software, for instance, often demand intimate knowledge of prohibitively expensive professional software that a layman has little access to.

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:59:31 PM by Pykrete

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55715: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:52:53 PM

[up][up]

Its kind of a big debate I find at least with a lot of liberal and fine art majors that we tend to view college as at best training for a job we will likely not land right out of college and will likely have as a side hobby for years before being successful.

Especially studio majors, Theatre majors, creative writers, Journalists, philosophy majors, musicians, etc.

The vast majority end up working other jobs and doing their 'real" job at night at home for upwards of 20 years with little success unless theyre really driven.

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:55:09 PM by Midgetsnowman

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55716: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:54:14 PM

[up][up][up]I thought you already couldn't make above the president if you're on the government payroll.

[up]Like I said I see nothing wrong with viewing college as a method of job training but, especially if your degree involves internships, but there's more to it than that.

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:54:56 PM by Kostya

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#55717: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:55:08 PM

Don't you have a liberal arts degree Max?

@Barkey: It shouldn't be that way. It's a waste of yours and every bodies time if your studying a subject you have no interest in just because you think it will guarantee financial security, especially when their isn't always a job at the end. I've seen unemployed Comp-Si majors, unemployed engineering majors, etc...who didn't get jobs for several months and some not in their field.. The most successful ones I do know are the ones who managed to find work to help pay for college and one who got his job through networking, and a lot of searching. He was a Communications Major and is now a Film Editor.

I agree don't take on $40, 000 and try to find a job in college. But don't go to anything right now out of HS just because you think you get financial security. If you want that look into a trade like cooking or haircutting or something.

edited 3rd Jun '13 6:58:11 PM by Wildcard

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#55718: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:59:42 PM

I'm a Liberal Arts major, yes. I studied screenwriting, hence the Star Wars, Star Trek, religion mashups. Sorry.

It was an honor
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55719: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:02:36 PM

to be fair, a lot of us who pick liberal arts or fine arts majors (except for idiots) either intend to go for a graduate degree or a masters, or are going for the love of the subject regardless of financial value.

And that's fine, but I don't want to pay for your degree or your student loans. That shouldn't make me an arrogant fuckwit.

That's like saying "Let me take a loan that I know I won't be able to afford once I have to start paying for it, and I expect you to help me pay for it." that's how I view it, I'm not particularly keen on taxpayer dollars being spent on that type of endeavor. It's not "bad luck" if you get a commercially useless degree and can't find a job. It's bad luck if you get a degree in information technology or engineering or business, and you can't find a job.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55720: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:05:20 PM

[up]

no, what I feel is arrogant about it is it basically follows that that means nobody's allowed to learn a field theyre passionate about unless theyre rich.

If you're poor, you get to be a doctor, an engineer, or a nurse, or else you dont deserve college at all.

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:05:51 PM by Midgetsnowman

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55721: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:06:58 PM

Or IT.. Or business.. Or teaching... There are a lot of possibilities out there.

My point is that I don't want to pay for other people to learn useless shit. I don't want to pay people to be unemployed. Do it yourself, I want my tax dollars spent on roads and public services.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55722: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:08:56 PM

Teaching requires far more than a degree. it also requires certifications (or a master's degree at the college level). IT's flooded as shit. Business is a degree for fucktards who think a business degree means shit against the 6 billion other idiots who also think they can run a business

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:09:48 PM by Midgetsnowman

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55723: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:10:31 PM

So basically you shouldn't go to college for the arts? That seems incredibly callous. I'm all for eliminating waste but we need people to do these jobs too and they shouldn't be hamstrung by debt. Paying it off for them would actually help the economy in the long run because they'd be able to use their money to buy things and stimulate the economy instead of paying off interest.

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#55724: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:11:20 PM

Honestly I think any major is okay if you have a way to pay for it. Even if you don't paying off a loan shouldn't be a huge problem. You should be able to find a job at the very least and in some areas you can't and it takes at least some money to move.

Nothing today is guaranteed financial security, don't to engineering or IT if you don't care. Cause honestly there are people who are looking in those fields who can't find anything.

@Barkey; Teaching? You know there are lot of out of work teachers now right?

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:14:37 PM by Wildcard

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#55725: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:13:30 PM

[up][up] Assuming they end up being successful as artists.

Longtime White House aide David Gergen called Monday on journalists and the public to "push back" against the way in which the Obama Administration has allowed leak investigations to pry into journalists' work and even label them as criminals.

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:13:58 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

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