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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#55576: Jun 2nd 2013 at 9:57:56 PM

[up][up] Before the west coast was counted the Repubs had more of the popular vote. As that was when the election was called, that's the stat that they tend to remember even though the final vote tally was strongly in the Democrats' favour.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#55578: Jun 2nd 2013 at 10:38:38 PM

Well, that's what happens when the average Joe illegally records what seems to have been a private conversation. At least he seems to not be getting sued.

Hey, as a matter of curiosity, what do you guys think it would take for getting rid of the Electoral College in the national voting process? It's just something I've been thinking about lately. I don't think it's going to be a huge priority any time soon, but that's mostly because I don't think people really know how it works, even when they're concerned about voting rights. (Most of that energy is obviously going towards the obstructive ID laws right now.)

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#55579: Jun 2nd 2013 at 10:49:40 PM

I think it would take a constitutional convention of some sort.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#55580: Jun 2nd 2013 at 10:51:46 PM

Well, I mean more along the lines for getting that to be a priority. There's a bajillion other things right in front of it that alarm people a whole lot more. Also, constitutional conventions have small chances of happening now. (I won't say impossible, but it would take years to wrangle that sort of thing out of the states as they currently are.)

But if it became a priority with the people/representatives, it could go through Congress like everything else.

Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#55581: Jun 2nd 2013 at 11:20:44 PM

If we're doing any voting reform, I think it should be a priority to implement approval voting. The current system is mathematically ridiculous. As it is, two similar candidates can't run without "stealing votes" from each other and ruining both their chances. It's hard to think of a worse way to count votes. The inevitable result is the two-party deadlock dominated by negative campaigning.

Mixed-member proportional representation seems like an interesting solution to gerrymandering, too.

edited 2nd Jun '13 11:21:16 PM by Topazan

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#55582: Jun 2nd 2013 at 11:33:17 PM

what do you guys think it would take for getting rid of the Electoral College in the national voting process?

And that's me being optimistic .

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#55583: Jun 2nd 2013 at 11:45:26 PM

[up] Agreed

Even though it's failed 4 times now and clearly should be nixed,it's just not gonna happen.

edited 2nd Jun '13 11:45:47 PM by terlwyth

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#55584: Jun 3rd 2013 at 12:05:10 AM

Great way to dismiss the question entirely and not actually think about it. It might not be a priority now, but my question was geared towards the future. Things ain't gonna stay like they currently are.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#55585: Jun 3rd 2013 at 12:16:33 AM

[up]

I just don't see it happening. Ever.

Unless we repeat the '2000 election incident' like a dozen times consecutively, I don't think many people are ever going to care enough to make eliminating the electoral system an important priority.

This system survived 200+ years; I don't see why it won't last 200 more.

EDIT: To put it in context; this system has survived 4 failures, a Civil War, the end of Slavery, a Great Depression, and the collapse of several political parties.

edited 3rd Jun '13 12:31:37 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Topazan from San Diego Since: Jan, 2010
#55586: Jun 3rd 2013 at 1:24:20 AM

[up]It's been around that long, but it hasn't always worked the same way.

In theory, each state is free to decide how it chooses its electors. For instance, if a major state like California or Texas decided to assign their electoral votes proportionately, they could. That might not be the change Ace is looking for, but it would be a start.

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#55587: Jun 3rd 2013 at 1:30:51 AM

Well there are a number of states that have signed up to a national popular vote idea. States are free to pick their own their elector-choosing processes, but there's nothing saying that they can't choose to assign their electors to support the candidate who wins the national popular vote if and only if total number of electors from those states that support this plan total a majority in the electoral college.

There aren't yet enough states supporting this idea for them to together have a majority in the EC yet though.

edited 3rd Jun '13 1:31:30 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

AnSTH Lawful Evil Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#55588: Jun 3rd 2013 at 5:43:53 AM

[up][up] Nebraska already does that. So does one of the New England states, Massachusetts I think.

[down]Knew it started with an M.

edited 3rd Jun '13 5:48:07 AM by AnSTH

But that's a story for another time.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#55589: Jun 3rd 2013 at 5:45:27 AM

No, Maine.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#55590: Jun 3rd 2013 at 6:59:57 AM

Don't have an article yet but apparently Senator Lautenberg (D) of New Jersey has died, aged 89.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#55591: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:03:13 AM

Wikipedia's citation.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#55592: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:21:13 AM

We shouldn't have senators in their 80s and 90s. It makes no sense at all. There is no way they could do their job right at that age, II mean, they're at the end of their life! Also, what does anyone think about how congresspeople are payed?

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:21:37 AM by Xopher001

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#55593: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:23:41 AM

4 times the amount of average Americans, but I am inclined to say that there are good reasons for that.

Putting in a mandatory retirement age would be a good idea.

Also, is it right that they won't have a special election there? Lautenberg's seat is up again in 2014, in short time.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#55594: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:34:11 AM

The people in my class think the welfare system encourages people to live off it rather than encouraging them to get a job. From what I've heard online, it's harder these days to get a job than it should be, especially for the unemployed. And of course there's the shame of living off welfare. Thoughts?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#55595: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:34:37 AM

[up][up][up]You have a point but the amount of experience some of these 5 term Senators have is definitely a boon.

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:34:52 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#55596: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:35:25 AM

My thoughts on Xopher's question is that your class needs to be reminded that between theory and reality there is often the sea.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#55597: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:40:15 AM

Xopher: Point out to your classmates that the unemployment/underemployment rate among college grads in the U.S. is huge. Ask how people are supposed to get jobs when there are hundreds of applicants for every position. Ask them if they've met any of these supposed lazy moochers.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#55598: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:45:16 AM

The "people in class" are completely correct when it comes to certain aspects of how it is handled. There are parents out there that depend on Social Security checks they receive because of their income level and their kids being "disabled". And part of the application process for the kids is their—presumably low because of their disability—grades. Not only does the government assistance disappear at an arbitrary income (so the person is encouraged to earn just under that amount) but the kids are encouraged to not get good grades because then the family loses those checks with no decrease in expenses.

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:45:57 AM by Belian

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#55599: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:46:41 AM

ccoa was talking about this a year or so ago in this topic. Yeah, seems like you need better inclusion criteria for these welfare systems.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#55600: Jun 3rd 2013 at 7:50:30 AM

What we need is to cut out all the conditions for getting welfare and the vast web of different programs, and turn it into a "minimum guaranteed income" program.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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