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Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55551: Jun 2nd 2013 at 7:46:16 PM

I'm interested in this part

That was especially the case with certain economic issues. The report said that on many questions tied to that subject, young people and the GOP are, in fact, on the same page: support for entrepreneurship and small businesses and slashing spending in many instances, for example. But that common ground often got lost for young voters.

To combat that, the report stressed that the GOP should better explain how its policies translate into economic growth for the country and for individuals. On an issue that hits especially close to home for young voters — student loans — Democrats are perceived as taking more action

You can say you're for something but that doesn't mean your policies actually have that effect. Many young people might realize this.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55552: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:02:31 PM

It wouldn't hurt for them to throw their logic out there and try to explain it. That gives better opportunities to call them out when they are correct, and to support the Repubs who have decent fiscal plans.

You guys paint with a bit too broad of a brush sometimes.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55553: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:09:45 PM

@Lordnyx: No. It means a disproportonate quanity of back people are unemployed and or living in extreme poverty, Granted, from a republican viewpoint, that makes them "lazy"

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55554: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:09:52 PM

[up][up]They do say what they want to do though. Most Republican fiscal plans I've heard are anti-something whether it be poor, minority, elderly, young, or some combination of those. I'm saying that while their goals are decent and in some cases admirable they don't realize that their plans won't achieve those goals as effectively. Sometimes they might even hinder them. Take taxes for example. I'm all for helping to improve economic growth but slashing them is not going to work because it decreases money the government has to spend and the government is one of the biggest consumers in the world. It also gives money to poor people through welfare which allows them to spend money which stimulates the economy even further.

edited 2nd Jun '13 8:10:04 PM by Kostya

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#55555: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:14:31 PM

support for entrepreneurship and small businesses and slashing spending in many instances, for example. But that common ground often got lost for young voters.

1. Support for entrepreneurship and small businesses, yes. However, that's missing two key elements:
a. an observation that Republican policies tend to favor big business rather than small business — i.e. rewarding the status quo and actually decreasing the opportunities for entrepreneurship. and
b. an awareness that businesses do not exist simply in a conceptual vacuum wherein they generate money and economic activity, but that businesses are inherently part of the social and environmental fabric of the town/city/county/state/country, and while policies and other circumstances affect businesses in many ways, positively and negatively, businesses in turn can affect their surroundings in many ways too, positively and negatively.

2. The specific notion of "slashing [government] spending" is not a priority objective itself. It's more of a means to an end, a tool in a toolbox. The objectives are efficiency, effectiveness, and deficit reduction. But there are other tools that can also produce these results. In fact, aiming intentionally for slashing spending can be counterproductive; sometimes you need to temporarily spend more money in order to implement a more efficient and cost-effective program in the longer run; us regular folk call these arrangements "investments".

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#55556: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:20:29 PM

I see two major problems with that report.

First, they seem to be under the impression that all they have to do is "explain" how their current unchanged economic policy would be good for anyone who isn't already an executive. There's no explanation necessary by now: giving more money to rich people just gives more money to rich people and doesn't find its way down without incentive, and the laws they propose statistically do more to aggressively stifle competition (largely small businesses) than aid them in any way. Young voters know this intimately, as we're getting utterly sodomized by it at every turn.

Second...

“[The] Republican Party has won the youth vote before and can absolutely win it again,” the report says, pointing to presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush who were competitive with that demographic. “But this will not occur without significant work to repair the damage done to the Republican brand among this age group over the last decade.”

If the image you're trying to shed is one of disconnected businessmen, it's probably not a good idea to reinforce it by consciously treating your party line as a brand.

edited 2nd Jun '13 8:23:57 PM by Pykrete

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55557: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:24:49 PM

To be fair, the world is kind of like that now. It's sort of like how I loathe when people in the military use the words "Customer" when they refer to a troop they are doing something for, or "Close of Business" instead of "End of the Duty Day".

The whole world is becoming more corporate. tongue

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55558: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:25:00 PM

[up][up]

Thats the thing. They are businessmen, and people know it. Which means all we hear is "How can we businessmen engage the hip cool kid crowd and convince them we're not businessmen?"

Its the same reason Microsoft's new Xbox is flailing in the PR wind. Suits who cant understand average consumers trying to appeal to average consumers.

edited 2nd Jun '13 8:25:39 PM by Midgetsnowman

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55559: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:26:24 PM

[up][up][up]I think it's better than using military terminology when talking about politics but neither bothers me too much to be honest.

edited 2nd Jun '13 8:26:37 PM by Kostya

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55560: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:29:11 PM

I guess one understandable reason why words like "brand" get thrown around is because the PR people for politicians were probably hired after having been PR people for companies that actually have a brand. So it might just be a common parlance term amongst those sorts of people, even if some folks take it as being rather disconnected.

Just a possibility.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55561: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:33:26 PM

[up]

It helps that most people that can finance going into politics are former businessmen, too.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#55562: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:33:33 PM

Ya' know I wonder if this is accurate?

I want to think so,but I don't think there was nearly as much partisanship,and Dukakis lost by a far more unfair margin than Romney,and the GOP has never been defeated as badly as the Dems in 1984.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#55563: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:33:46 PM

That, and revolving door is kind of a bigger issue for Republicans right now...

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55564: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:42:32 PM

[up]

The revolving door is a symptom of that anytime someone tries to rebel against the party line they get excoriated for it.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55565: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:42:52 PM

@Terl

Hmm, that was an interesting article. Good post.

AnSTH Lawful Evil Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#55566: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:48:42 PM

[up][up][up] You've lost me with this revolving door business. Please explain?

But that's a story for another time.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55567: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:51:13 PM

^

It's basically saying that the GOP is an echo chamber, and that most of them want it to stay that way. Any sort of hints towards "Hey guys, the entire country is beginning to hate us, maybe we should change so we represent a broader spectrum of people so that we lose less?" gets you ostracized and kicked out of all the social circles in the party.

Sort of like "Our ideology is flawed, but you're either with us or against us, and if you point out those flaws you obviously aren't with us."

Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#55568: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:58:17 PM

When I hear "revolving door in politics" I think of how politicians can leave office and immediately get jobs in companies that lobbied them—especially in the financial sector.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
AnSTH Lawful Evil Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#55569: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:58:43 PM

Well the entire country isn't really turning against them. They still had a good run in 2012 and actually would have won in a system that used popular votes instead of the electoral college (I can find the statistics to back that up if you want).

I think it's more of a case that they're becoming more reliant on specific hot-button issues like gay marriage and gun control and immigration to motivate their voter base while the proportion of voters opposed to those stances increases and they fail to appeal to them with their lackluster policies in other fields due to becoming so specialized.

That was a mouthful.

edited 2nd Jun '13 8:59:21 PM by AnSTH

But that's a story for another time.
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#55570: Jun 2nd 2013 at 8:59:26 PM

Actually, I was talking about the current tendency for businessmen and Congressmen being roughly interchangeable. A huge chunk of them are themselves business owners, and it's very, very common for legislators to leave their seat and immediately get a cushy job working for companies that lobbied them while in office. This in essence is revolving door politics.

ninjad by a puppy.

edited 2nd Jun '13 9:03:40 PM by Pykrete

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#55571: Jun 2nd 2013 at 9:22:53 PM

[up][up]

I'm pretty sure the Democrats won the popular vote in 2012.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55572: Jun 2nd 2013 at 9:25:54 PM

[up][up][up]

actually, democrats won every popular vote. Including overall house votes.

We still didnt gain the house back due to massive gerrymandering, but had 2 million or more overall votes more.

edited 2nd Jun '13 9:26:00 PM by Midgetsnowman

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#55573: Jun 2nd 2013 at 9:35:58 PM

[up] 1.4 million, but that is still a lot.

Senator McCain: Holder’s actions ‘demand explanation’

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
AnSTH Lawful Evil Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#55574: Jun 2nd 2013 at 9:40:06 PM

Hmmm. Must have misremembered something important then. Find data tomorrow, sleep tonight.

But that's a story for another time.
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#55575: Jun 2nd 2013 at 9:51:12 PM

nvm misread

edited 2nd Jun '13 9:51:45 PM by Pykrete


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