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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#55076: May 24th 2013 at 10:42:49 AM

"You can push them out of a plane, you can march them off a cliff, you can send them off to die on some God-forsaken rock, but for some reason you can't fail to salute them."

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#55077: May 24th 2013 at 10:49:07 AM

[up]

Marines don't jump out of planes...well, except from MARSOC.

The salute is an acknowledgement and, in the President's case, a statement of thanks for them having done those things.

It seems Obama realized, got out of Marine One and gave the guy a handshake and, presumably, apologized. He made a rude mistake, realized, and set it right. Nontroversy.

edited 24th May '13 10:49:50 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#55078: May 24th 2013 at 11:05:54 AM

Correct link for "Obama fails to return Marine's salute"

Not that it matters. The article itself states that he "corrected" himself very quickly. Another "provocative headline to get people's attention that does not really tell the story" more than anything else.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55079: May 24th 2013 at 11:22:26 AM

Not returning the salute was a stupid goof to make so soon after that umbrella controversy. I'm not sure if he actually has to salute the Marines, since he is not and never has been a serving military officer (I'm sure a miltroper can clarify), but I suppose it has become convention that the President does so. Still, a personal apology and a handshake should be enough to patch things over. I assume it is just absentmindedness, though he really should have known better, given how salutes have always been Serious Business to all militaries.

It's considered very rude not to return a salute.

Everyone in the military is obligated to salute the Commander-In-Chief, as he is technically the highest ranking member of the military. Whenever you salute someone, they are supposed to salute back. It's considered extremely disrespectful not to return a salute rendered to you.

"You can push them out of a plane, you can march them off a cliff, you can send them off to die on some God-forsaken rock, but for some reason you can't fail to salute them."

We get paid to do those things. A salute is a thing of respect.

Obama has been extremely horrible at "the little things" when it comes to his personal interactions with the military.

edited 24th May '13 11:24:23 AM by Barkey

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#55080: May 24th 2013 at 12:40:26 PM

Michele Bachmann inspires romance novel

Still a better love story than Twilight.

Obama: Sexual assaults 'threaten the trust' in US military

McCain, Graham defend Obama nominee linked to Benghazi

edited 24th May '13 1:00:36 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#55081: May 24th 2013 at 4:34:45 PM

[up][up]Well, unlike most other US presidents, he has zero military background, so it kind of makes sense that he'd be ignorant of that stuff.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55083: May 24th 2013 at 6:33:53 PM

^^

You would think there would be a laundry list of things they tell you as soon as you become president, and he isn't ignorant of that policy, this is his second term and I know for a fact that he's returned salutes from troops before. That's a pretty basic and regular part of being president.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#55084: May 24th 2013 at 6:45:05 PM

[up]

then..perhaps its less of a controversy and more someone forgetting because people sometimes forget shit and he apologized right afterwards and this is yet another manufactured controversy?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55085: May 24th 2013 at 6:56:33 PM

[up][up]Which indicates that he's not ignorant and simply wasn't thinking. Obama is not a military man, I wouldn't expect this stuff to be second nature to him. The fact that he apologized proves that he wasn't out to offend or belittle anyone. He just didn't think about it immediately.

edited 24th May '13 6:57:36 PM by Kostya

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55086: May 24th 2013 at 6:59:15 PM

Or, it's something that would normally be very minor, but is kind of throwing more fuel on the fire when it comes to the multitude of reasons the military doesn't like Obama?

There's a rather large feeling of a lack of appreciation for us from the President, to put it lightly.

The general feeling is that he's a tad dismissive of us.

edited 24th May '13 7:01:17 PM by Barkey

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#55087: May 24th 2013 at 7:00:53 PM

Sorry, but I'm with the others on this. Honest mistake. He apologized immediately and rectified it. Not a big deal overall.

If it was dismissive, why would he apologize immediately for his error? I don't see it.

edited 24th May '13 7:04:47 PM by Irene

Shadow?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55088: May 24th 2013 at 7:10:20 PM

I'm not sure how the president has ever been dismissive of the military. What makes them feel this way?

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55089: May 24th 2013 at 7:15:09 PM

I guess his communication with the troops has seemed sort of lackluster, from a PR perspective.

I've seen through some of that and connected the dots on how he has conducted himself with defense policy, and from a strategic perspective, I kind of approve. I liked how he handled Libya, and I like his focus on letting the drone strikes keep going in Pakistan. Wish he would speak out against some of the budget raping we've had to endure, but whatever.(Let me clarify, that doesn't mean I'm against defense cuts, but I'm vehemently against budget cuts that involve kicking out troops when we've got so much fat on the defense industry side that needs to be trimmed first)

I think part of it is just that there's been a major lack of "meet and greet" cheesy PR events that most presidents do with the troops for his whole term. His interactions with the troops publicly have pretty much been non-existent, so the rank and file feel sort of forgotten about or dismissed.

He's just never really seemed to have much of a focus on interacting with the troops at all. I never thought I'd say it, but some of those stupid "Meet and greet and shake hands with the troops" photo ops that other presidents have done aren't really noticed until a president neglects to do them.

I just don't feel like Obama has really accomplished much of anything on my list of "Things that are important to me" and for most troops, that list is often very similar. I voted for the guy twice, and I'm starting to kind of regret that. I know there's been lots of GOP interference on some of the things on his bucket list, but there's lots of things I care about that he hasn't really talked about, or he's acted against.

edited 24th May '13 7:20:12 PM by Barkey

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#55091: May 24th 2013 at 9:03:33 PM

I don't get the whole saluting thing. I can kinda see the point in saluting a superior as a show of subservience, but the superior being expected to salute back seems to make the whole exercise moot.

It's the same reason I don't like the phrase "you're welcome". If someone does you a favor, you repay them by saying "thank you"; that makes sense. But placing a social obligation on the favor-doer to say "you're welcome" in reply? What purpose does that serve?

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#55092: May 24th 2013 at 9:40:26 PM

Guys, guys. We're missing the big story here.

Michele Bachmann inspires romance novel

WAAAAAT

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#55093: May 24th 2013 at 9:44:57 PM

[up][up][up][up]Barkey, since you've bought it up again I'll ask my question again (and pray for a response), how is the military budget Obama's fault? Isn't the budget set by congress?

edited 24th May '13 9:45:12 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#55094: May 24th 2013 at 9:52:25 PM

@Pykrete: I don't even...

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#55095: May 25th 2013 at 12:45:53 AM

^^

It's not, it's more that Presidents are figureheads who get blamed for bullshit, and that as Commander in Chief there is sort of an expectation for the President to cock-block things that are bad for us, either through influence and speeches or presidential veto.

I'm not trying to say it makes sense, people blame presidents for shit that is Congress' fault on a regular basis, but there's sort of an expectation there.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55096: May 25th 2013 at 7:22:56 AM

Mississippi could start charging women with manslaughter if they have a miscarriage or stillbirth. This is a dangerous road to go down. According to this court the woman "did willfully, unlawfully, feloniously, kill Hayley Jade Buckhalter, a human being, by culpable negligence." It's referring to the fact that she used drugs while pregnant. While that is a very stupid thing to do this sets a dangerous precedent. I simply can't fathom why people would think it's justice to punish a woman after going through such a traumatic event.

CaptainKatsura Decoy from    Poland    Since: Jul, 2011
Decoy
#55097: May 25th 2013 at 7:31:41 AM

[up]Damn, even our fruitcakes and the Catholic Church don't want to charge women with murder.

Southern States make my country look progressive.

edited 25th May '13 7:32:18 AM by CaptainKatsura

My President is Funny Valentine.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#55098: May 25th 2013 at 7:35:44 AM

I doubt it will make it to trial — or that, if it does, it will ultimately survive appeal. Defining a fetus as a human being prior to birth will open a can of worms that the courts do not want to deal with.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#55099: May 25th 2013 at 7:38:49 AM

And defining a miscarriage as a crime would be a similar can of worms, I'd say.

Also, haven't you had such legislation already?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#55100: May 25th 2013 at 7:44:08 AM

[up][up]But the pro-life side already views fetuses as humans. That's one of their main arguments against abortion and it's part of the reason why I don't like that mentality. If taken to its logical conclusion then that means every single miscarriage is an act of manslaughter because the woman unintentionally killed someone.

[up]Defining miscarriage as a crime would probably force a lot of women to keep their pregnancy a secret and not seek the necessary care because if they don't deliver it someone could accuse them of killing it.

edited 25th May '13 7:45:19 AM by Kostya


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