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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#54551: May 13th 2013 at 4:48:32 PM

Yeah you can blame Plato for soul mate stuff. And in its initial form it was less TWU WUV and more "People used to be hermaphroditic Janus-headed Shokan, but Zeus cut them all in half with lightning, so you have to find and re-assimilate your other physical half." Plato had some fucking weird shit, man.

Anyway, US religious-themed work ethic traces back to European Protestant reformations that considerably predated the Puritans. The 1500's saw a very similar victim-blaming unemployment surge in Germany and England (among others) as the US is having today. And as for when it got brought to America, that was not only the Puritans, but also the French Huguenots, the Dutch, and the Swiss, all of whom were big on Calvinism.

The Calvinist view also died down considerably over time once European elite started coming in again after the Revolution. What we're seeing today is a leftover of industrial revolution propaganda, which was largely incompatible with Calvinist work ethic. A moral system centered on personal workshop craftsmanship and individual autonomy was something that got actively suppressed during the transition to unskilled factory jobs. After a while workers were assumed to be lazy and stupid peons motivated only by money, which was a curious reflection of some of the major Federalist thought early in America's infancy, and you got "scientific management", which...well, it did a hell of a lot of damage during the early 1900's.

edited 13th May '13 4:52:55 PM by Pykrete

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54552: May 13th 2013 at 4:56:21 PM

Look we can blame the Puritans, Calvinism, Objectivism, Social Darwinism, the American Dream, plutocracies, the Industrial Revolution, etc. but we probably should agree that their is likely more than one source for the 'poor=lazy' mentality.

Justice Department secretly seized AP reporters’ phone records

Obama blames GOP ‘hyper-partisanship’ for 'blocking' agenda

Obama: IRS wrongdoing is 'outrageous'

Poll: 39% Of People Who Think Benghazi Is A Scandal Don’t Know Where It Is

Poll: Voters trust Hillary Clinton more than GOP lawmakers on Benghazi

edited 13th May '13 5:06:47 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
lordnyx Since: Aug, 2009
#54553: May 13th 2013 at 5:09:02 PM

Only abit over a third, hmm they're getting mor edumucated!

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#54554: May 13th 2013 at 5:14:06 PM

Wow, they're really afraid of the idea that Clinton could even consider running for president. Like, she'd be an instant win if she did. o__O

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#54555: May 13th 2013 at 5:16:49 PM

[up]She would win against Perry in Texas in a hypothetical race between the two and she'd give Rubio and Christie a run for their money. She'd also win Florida by a large margin even if she were up against Rubio or Bush.

If the Republicans lose both of those states they are incapable of taking the Presidency even if by some miracle they win Ohio and Virginia.

edited 13th May '13 5:17:30 PM by Kostya

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54556: May 13th 2013 at 5:18:22 PM

[up][up]

If the polls are accurate than she probably would.

Watch Newt Gingrich’s Embarrassingly Hilarious Video On Renaming Cell Phones

Newt, we call them 'smartphones'

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#54557: May 13th 2013 at 5:22:49 PM

[up]I am baffled that a person in such a high position would have no knowledge of the term smartphone.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#54559: May 13th 2013 at 5:46:15 PM

Hmm...maybe. It's certainly a good scare tactic although this could just lead to discrimination against brown people or Muslims that want to buy guns.

lonesomepaire from nowhere,wyoming Since: Apr, 2013
#54561: May 13th 2013 at 6:09:23 PM

Gun nut here: with out getting too involved on the conversation, the quote on the top page is incorrect. You can't buy fully automatic guns(well technically you could,but you need a license, you can't buy new ones, there's a limited supply, the cost more than European cars, etc.). Also I'd say the "gun show loophole" is over stated, most sellers at gun shows are legally required to do a background check, and even private sellers usually do one anyway.

I'd go with kostya here, it would probably just lead to discrimination to Muslims.

edited 13th May '13 6:09:47 PM by lonesomepaire

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#54562: May 13th 2013 at 6:30:56 PM

That's... an interesting way to go at it. It does appear that if there were background checks in the cases of the people mentioned there was a severe lack of caring that they were on any watch list. (Four people on that list should have DEFINITELY been flagged if the people selling the guns were correctly doing their job.)

Not sure what I think about it, really. Guess we'll have to wait and see if it's effective. It is rather interesting though that they're basically pointing out that "Hey, these are people YOU personally dislike, and they're getting guns with all this guns for everyone stuff going on."

[up]Legally required doesn't mean you do it, and considering a lot of people at those gun shows are anti-government types I'm betting there's quite a few just ignoring that law. Same applies to "private sellers usually do it too."

As for the "nuclear option". Wow, that sure would get a lot of people up in arms about destroying the democratic process. They must feel really up against the wall to discuss using that for anything. Anyone got any ideas what would happen if this occurs?

edited 13th May '13 6:32:27 PM by AceofSpades

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#54563: May 13th 2013 at 6:31:18 PM

I personally think the whole American Dream idea comes from a time when the U.S. was expanding into unexplored territory, and there were a number of people who decided they didn't like existing social structures and went out and founded their own successfully, because there were plentiful natural resources (space being one of them). (In case you're wondering, the ones who didn't just shut up and were never heard from again.)

Unfortunately, we live in an increasingly crowded and resource-constrained world, and thus the idea of simply creating one's own wealth by digging it up, growing it from the ground, etc. just doesn't apply anymore, as we're increasingly interdependent, and our fates are increasingly interdependent.

DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#54564: May 13th 2013 at 6:40:20 PM

@ Ace of Spades: How many gun shows have you actually been to? I tend to see more pro-american, government-loving types there who simply prefer that Big Government stays out of their "Free Market" business.

Gun Shows are really not a popular place for the radical "Anti-gubment" militiaman, when gun shows are pretty much everything that those types hate.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
lonesomepaire from nowhere,wyoming Since: Apr, 2013
#54566: May 13th 2013 at 6:52:04 PM

I don't mean to sound offensive,but how many gun shows have you been too, exactly? Every gun show I've been in had security guards,police, and In most big shows, they run checks when you come in/if you leave with guns. As for anti-government types, I've never meet any loud, bomb throwing anarchist/right wing militia fanatics or really any anti-government types at gun shows. Most people there are hunters or shooters or hobbyists.

Edit: ninja'd

edited 13th May '13 6:53:11 PM by lonesomepaire

Linhasxoc Since: Jun, 2009
#54567: May 13th 2013 at 8:00:33 PM

The Amish are a sect of the Anabaptists. If memory serves, the Puritans and Anabaptists disliked each other.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#54568: May 13th 2013 at 8:44:00 PM

Also I'd say the "gun show loophole" is over stated, most sellers at gun shows are legally required to do a background check, and even private sellers usually do one anyway.

Straw purchases comprise a huge chunk of guns used in crime, and appear to be mostly local to a very particular subset of lax retailers. It really depends on what region of the country you're in and who's running the gun show, really. Attitudes vary wildly, and the worst people will descend on the least responsible.

Like, out here in Oregon we've got a bunch of liberals that grew up on farms, so our gun shows tend to be popular but run responsibly (at least more so than a lot of places). Were you to attend one in Texas or Mississippi, I'd imagine it looks less rosy.

edited 13th May '13 8:47:34 PM by Pykrete

lonesomepaire from nowhere,wyoming Since: Apr, 2013
#54569: May 13th 2013 at 9:13:02 PM

Well, straw purchasing is a bit bit different than the gun show loophole, but yeah, I'd assume that different places are different. especially with something so controversial as guns. Most shows I've been to where either in Virginia (where I grew up) or the north west. Speaking of which doesn't Ace live in Texas? Have you ever been to a gun show there, and if so what is it like?

edited 13th May '13 9:19:05 PM by lonesomepaire

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#54570: May 14th 2013 at 12:25:57 AM

I am baffled that a person in such a high position would have no knowledge of the term smartphone.

Well that would explain the "Horseless cellphone" Newt image macro I saw.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#54571: May 14th 2013 at 1:32:16 AM

Poll: 39% Of People Who Think Benghazi Is A Scandal Don’t Know Where It Is
You're kidding me. I mean, it's more or less the reason why the US and the NATO managed to get UNSC approval for joining the Libyan civil war on the revolution's side: A armed-to-the-teeth regime force was pushing its way through the Libyan desert and/or coastline to enact genocide on the city and the outgunned, outnumbered, heavily-battered, and largely-disorganized and -undisciplined revolutionary militias that they had just finished kicking their collective asses and forcing them to retreat back there.

You'd think they'd at least know it was a North African city from all the news reports.

edited 14th May '13 1:32:56 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#54572: May 14th 2013 at 1:58:23 AM

They probably dismissed it as one of those crazy middle eastern places (despite its not being in the middle east) until the U.S. intervened.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#54573: May 14th 2013 at 2:03:45 AM

It's technically "Middle Eastern" if you go by the "Greater Middle East" definition. And only 14% percent out of the 39% managed to at least get the continent right — 10% for neighbouring Egypt and 1% for Liberia. All the others thought that it was either in Cuba or in Asia, one even going as far as thinking it was in North Korea.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
CaptainKatsura Decoy from    Poland    Since: Jul, 2011
Decoy
#54574: May 14th 2013 at 2:07:32 AM

This only proves that education in the US is rife with severe issues that need to be adressed quickly.

Of course, as long as the USA is at the top they need only brain drain to replenish their pool of scientists, and I feel that won't change till 2050s.

edited 14th May '13 2:09:05 AM by CaptainKatsura

My President is Funny Valentine.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54575: May 14th 2013 at 2:08:19 AM

In Cuba? How big do they think Cuba is? (It's is pretty big, though.)

As for the Puritans, their heirs are the Bostonites. Ever heard of "Boston values"? Yeaaah, they're pretty laid-back.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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