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DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54476: May 12th 2013 at 12:51:19 PM

[up] Right, which is why Rand considers it a bad thing that Obama does give shits about the UN.

Admittedly I have to agree with him though that I'm rather uncomfortable with the U.N.'s attempts at gun control. I believe it's an issue they should stay away from.

The Health and Human Services Department (HHS) says there's nothing illegal or improper about soliciting donations to help promote President Obama's healthcare law.

Congress is hearing from more whistleblowers who wish to testify on the terrorist attack in Benghazi, according to House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-Mich.).

edited 12th May '13 12:58:09 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#54477: May 12th 2013 at 12:53:41 PM

[up]

Except it isn't an attempt at gun control, its an attempt to control the international arms trade. It has nothing to do with domestic ownership of guns, indeed, the Arms Trade Treaty states " it is the exclusive right of States to regulate internal transfers of arms and national ownership, including through constitutional protections on private ownership.”

edited 12th May '13 12:55:00 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#54478: May 12th 2013 at 12:59:55 PM

Speaking of gun control, it seems the controversy has dropped out of the world headlines from what I can see. What "progress" has been made on it?

Is that thread cool for inquiries about the history of religion in politics? I'm actually curious about trends in fatwas and judgments issued by Islamic authorities in the period between the Islamic golden age and the 20th century. SOMETHING happened in between and I'd like to know what.
Given the thread title and the first post, I'd say yes.

edited 12th May '13 1:00:38 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#54479: May 12th 2013 at 1:02:54 PM

The Toomey-Manchin amendment is probably going to be reintroduced. Some people voting against the bill have become very unpopular.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#54480: May 12th 2013 at 1:30:18 PM

Still, this pales in comparison to Woodrow Wilson setting up the League of Nations and then not joining it.
My 9th grade-equivalent history teacher said Wilson wanted to, but failed to get a 2/3 majority vote from Congress.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#54482: May 12th 2013 at 1:32:11 PM

the short version is. Half our nation believes so much in this crazy warped idea of how the world will end (IE, The Rapture, which isnt even in the Bible) via all nations becoming a one world government ran by satan, that they will block even the tiniest thing that might in their opinion equal the beginnings of such a state.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54483: May 12th 2013 at 1:35:00 PM

What, really? That's it?

Also, historical question, where the heck does the "Poor people are lazy" meme come from? It seems unique to the US. It seems common sense that poor people would bust their asses off working while rich people would enjoy "the finer things in life". no?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54484: May 12th 2013 at 1:35:08 PM

Yeah, Wilson suffered a stroke while on a cross-country tour campaigning for the U.S. to join the League of Nations.

[up] Social Darwinism?

edited 12th May '13 1:37:55 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#54485: May 12th 2013 at 1:36:19 PM

[up]

Which was cold comfort to France and Britain, who were left to contain the aggression of the fascist powers without any kind of workable global security arrangement. An amusing cartoon.

If he couldn't get the USA in, he shouldn't have set it up.

edited 12th May '13 1:37:10 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54486: May 12th 2013 at 1:42:49 PM

[up][up]Social Darwinism is "the weak die, the strong prevail", not "the weak are lazy".

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#54487: May 12th 2013 at 1:45:11 PM

I think the philosophy in question is objectivism?

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54488: May 12th 2013 at 1:46:26 PM

[up][up][up] Well, he thought he could get the U.S.A in.

He just underestimated the backlash to his idea.

[up][up] But the weak have to be weak for a reason. Why not blame their own laziness for there weakness.

I blame people like William G. Sumner.

[up] The mentality existed long before Objectivism.

Retired U.S. Ambassador Thomas Pickering, who led the State Department’s internal audit of the Benghazi attack, defended their efforts on Sunday, saying they had completed a thorough review and saw no reason to reopen the investigation

edited 12th May '13 2:02:55 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#54489: May 12th 2013 at 2:03:10 PM

[up]

I've no doubt he had the best of intentions, but the fact of the matter is that he didn't bear the brunt of his fuckup, Europe did.

edited 12th May '13 2:03:33 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54490: May 12th 2013 at 2:08:48 PM

[up]

I'm a bit confused, are you implying that without the League of Nations, Britain and France wouldn't have to confront the rising menace of Nazi Germany and/or the Stalinist USSR eventually?

Because the main reason the U.K. and France went to war with Germany in the first place was because of military alliances. The League had little to do with it.

Or are you implying that without the League, America would be more willing to declare war on the Axis?

edited 12th May '13 2:20:11 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#54491: May 12th 2013 at 2:20:11 PM

[up]

And the reason Germany was in a position to threaten Poland was because it had been allowed to grow to that size through appeasement, because an actual confrontation was impossible with a strong League of Nations, which could not exist without the United States. Had Britain and France been free from trying to make the League work, they could have taken more decisive action to prepare themselves (and their Allies). The degree to which the League restricted armament production is often underestimated.

edited 12th May '13 2:21:28 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54492: May 12th 2013 at 2:27:50 PM

If you're complaining about America's lack of involvement, than I can hardly see how Wilson deserves the blame as he tried more than anyone to get the US admitted.

Senator Feinstein (D-CA) Says It’s ‘Nonsense’ That Benghazi Should Preclude Hillary From Presidency

Senator Collins: Obama should condemn IRS for targeting Tea Party groups

edited 12th May '13 2:47:53 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#54493: May 12th 2013 at 2:46:29 PM

Once again to explain the no League of Nations for US, like everything wrong today in the political landscape, it's the Republicans fault.

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#54494: May 12th 2013 at 2:51:41 PM

[up][up]

He shouldn't even have tried to set it up. He should have known how his legislature was going to behave. Instead, he basically sold something to Lloyd George and Clemenceau that he couldn't deliver. Which he should have realized. However one tries to cut it, Woodrow fucked up good.

[up]

Indeed it is, in part.

edited 12th May '13 2:52:19 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54495: May 12th 2013 at 3:08:36 PM

I still say that, considering the rise of pacifism that commenced after the first World War, disarmament would have commenced to some degree even without the League.

Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin said on Sunday Republican efforts to blame former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for the Benghazi attacks in Libya is part of the "political show" of the 2016 presidential election.

edited 12th May '13 3:08:56 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#54496: May 12th 2013 at 3:22:04 PM

@The Handle: I beieve it mainly comes from a certain strain of thought among conservatives that

1: The american Dream is totally real, and anyone can pick themselves up by their bootstraps and become successful with hard work.

2: therefore, anyone who is not successful must deserve to be not successful.

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#54497: May 12th 2013 at 3:49:41 PM

If God is upset that we're not worshiping him why would he be such a jerk? I'm pretty sure being nice would be a far better plan.

Look at the rest of their worldview. If children misbehave, punish them; if they misbehave harder, punish them harder. If a foreign country should offend the U.S., show them a display of strength; if they should try to attack us, beat the everliving crap out of them and they'll learn not to fuck with us.

As tricksterson notes, this worldview is based on fear. Their assuming that (their idea of) God — as the omnipotent and supreme being who governs and directs all our lives — would do the same, is merely consistent with this worldview.

Oh by the way...

such a dire offense that it is worthy of severe, collective punishment — and that said punishment will not exclude however many truly pious people are within said society, because they shirked their duty by standing by and let society degenerate to that state in the first place.

While Marq was speaking from an Islamic point of view, this holds true for at least some denominations of Christianity as well — I've definitely heard Christians say that they feel if they haven't converted as many people as you can, you're not doing your part. (Edit: Marq informs me that this is the Islamic point of view actually doesn't go this far.)

Personally, I think that sort of thinking turns religion into a pyramid scheme.

...Lady has a point. Though, as the article says, "The rate is so low in part because there’s very little risk the loans won’t be repaid." Loans to banks and loans to students are NOT the same thing and should not be treated the same, but "student debt has outpaced credit-card debt, as borrowers struggle to pay back a collective $1 trillion in debt." Talk about no clear "correct" answer.

Actually, considering how much latitude I've heard the government and collection agencies have to force you to pay up your student loans, and how little clout people fresh out of college have, and compare this to big banks having tons of fun with their money, I'm inclined to agree heartily with Sen. Warren's idea.

Warren was going to be appointed to something by Obama, but she was veto by the Senate.

Yes; she was nominated to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, but the Republican senators (who were bent on shutting the whole thing down in the first place) blocked her nomination.

Ironically, she's now a senator herself.

Senator Rand Paul: Obama Aiding ‘Anti-American Globalists’ In Take Down Of Our Constitution

Dear Senator Paul,

You're a fucking nutcase.

Your fellow American,
Glenn Magus Harvey

Still, this pales in comparison to Woodrow Wilson setting up the League of Nations and then not joining it.

We're still in the business of doing this. Remember Kyoto?

If he couldn't get the USA in, he shouldn't have set it up.

I just did a paper about Kyoto, and I've discovered that if you're actually the one trying to get the USA in, you sometimes don't have a good idea whether you will succeed or fail. As in, you can reasonably see a path to success, but you can also reasonably see that path being derailed, and any estimates of your chances will change by the day, if not the hour or minute.

The reason the USA hasn't bothered - you're going to love this - to ratify UNCRC is because it allows children the right to have their voice heard (not followed, just heard) in decisions involving them. And That's Terrible.

All of this can be blamed on the Republicans and the Christian Right.

Why can this be blamed on "Republicans and the Christian Right"?

edited 13th May '13 3:47:25 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#54498: May 12th 2013 at 4:09:18 PM

I just did a paper about Kyoto, and I've discovered that if you're actually the one trying to get the USA in, you sometimes don't have a good idea whether you will succeed or fail. As in, you can reasonably see a path to success, but you can also reasonably see that path being derailed, and any estimates of your chances will change by the day, if not the hour or minute

If he didn't know for a certainty if he could get the USA in, why devise an international system of peacekeeping that depended on US involvement to work? At best, Wilson took a risk on behalf of others.

Why can this be blamed on "Republicans and the Christian Right"?

Republicans have a bizarre anti-UN conspiracy mindset - Jesse Helms led the opposition to ratifying UNCRC on sovereignty grounds and others wanted to continue executing under 18s (or at least have the option to do so), whilst the Christian right worried that it might erode homeschooling.

edited 12th May '13 4:36:06 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#54499: May 12th 2013 at 4:12:08 PM

Heh. That reminds me of my theo teacher. H mentioned that u can't be homeschooled in Germany. Than he went on a tangent about education and slippery slopes and what would happen if we banned homeschooling here and blah blah blah bs. but anyways, homeschooling

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54500: May 12th 2013 at 8:47:13 PM

Contrast with the UK where there's no such thing as primary schools, ...Or So I Heard.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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