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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#54201: May 7th 2013 at 7:08:04 PM

Apparently Sanford voted to impeach Clinton for his extramarital activities. Irony truly is lost on them.

edited 7th May '13 7:08:14 PM by Kostya

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#54202: May 7th 2013 at 7:10:33 PM

Re: South Carolina

Three Ohio women missing for a decade rescued from a house where they were imprisoned by three men. Thankfully the women were okay and reunited with some very happy family; here's hoping they recover with ease. (Prepare for some incoming stupid on the media though; the three were Latinos, one of whom has the last name Castro.)

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#54203: May 7th 2013 at 7:20:32 PM

Yup. Because it's not our country's job to be a safe haven for all residents of any region currently undergoing any sort of upheaval that makes living there dangerous.

You're retreating back into generalities. And there's certainly room for a discussion on those generalities in a more philosophical sense, but with regards to Mexico, specifically, the United States has special moral obligations.

From Wikipedia:

In seeking partnership from the United States, Mexican officials point out that the illicit drug trade is a shared problem in need of a shared solution, and remark that most of the financing for the Mexican traffickers comes from American drug consumers.[242] On March 25, 2009, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton stated that "[America's] insatiable demand for illegal drugs fuels the drug trade", and that "the United States bears shared responsibility for the drug-fueled violence sweeping Mexico."[243]

You cannot fund another country's criminals to the extent that we are doing and then turn around and say we have no special responsibility to them because they're just another impoverished country like any other such country throughout the world. You may very well disagree about the breadth or implications of that responsibility, but to argue for no special responsibility whatsoever is nothing less than wickedly dishonest.

And on an unrelated note... dammit, South Carolina, I am very disappointed in you right now. Family values indeed... I will roll my eyes the next time a fellow S Cer guffaws at an adulterous Democrat.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#54204: May 7th 2013 at 7:27:47 PM

Even if we weren't funding the drug trade I think we'd have some obligation to Mexico. They're our nearest neighbor aside from Canada, and helping them make a better future for themselves helps build a better future for ourselves as well. Mutualism, and all that.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#54205: May 7th 2013 at 7:35:30 PM

Well there goes the Colbert Bump,tragic irony at it's finest.

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#54206: May 7th 2013 at 7:38:37 PM

There are times when I get really, really depressed about my country.

edited 7th May '13 7:38:47 PM by DrTentacles

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#54207: May 7th 2013 at 7:45:59 PM

Fuck South Carolina for basically electing a criminal.

FLORIDA DID IT FIRST! :DDDD

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#54208: May 7th 2013 at 7:49:13 PM

Criminals being elected is nothing new. Anyway I got the impression the hypocrisy of the situation bothered people more than the fact that he's a criminal.

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#54209: May 7th 2013 at 7:49:35 PM

[up][up]You talking about Rutherfraud B. Hayes?

edited 7th May '13 7:49:43 PM by Balmung

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#54210: May 7th 2013 at 7:53:17 PM

Or the Henry "Feet Of" Clay deal with JQ Adams that screwed over Andrew Jackson the first round?

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#54212: May 7th 2013 at 8:16:01 PM

with regards to Mexico, specifically, the United States has special moral obligations.
The hell it does. The drug issue is entirely separate from the immigration issue — again, I don't buy the idea that most Mexican immigrants (illegal or notherwise) are fleeing drug-related violence. They come here to make money for their families, not to avoid drug cartels.

If you want to talk about what America should be doing to help Mexico with the cartels, that's certainly a conversation we could be having. But "American citizens are involved with Mexican drug cartels, therefore we should give illegal Mexican immigrants into the United States a pass" is a nonstarter.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#54213: May 7th 2013 at 8:36:17 PM

@ Balmung: I was talking about Rick Scott, the current govenror of Florida.

But yeah.

Regardin' South Carolina:

This just ain't right.

This here is just a sad display, folks.

edited 7th May '13 8:36:46 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#54214: May 7th 2013 at 8:38:48 PM

If you want to talk about nonstarters, you might want to consider how difficult it is to have a discussion with someone who insists on seeing the world as a series of wholly disconnected compartments. The drug black market and a country's overall economy are, in fact, heavily intertwined.

If you can't accept basic relationships between interconnected issues, then there's really nothing more I have to say.

And you can tell me what you don't 'buy' all you like, the statistics are what they are.

edited 7th May '13 8:39:26 PM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#54215: May 7th 2013 at 8:41:39 PM

Well, that does seem to be a problem. Even if you take out political rhetoric, it can sometimes be hard to see how two issues are related to each other. Interconnectedness isn't something we talk about a lot, in any sense. Let alone the political.

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#54216: May 7th 2013 at 8:43:54 PM

Jovian, the US is also partly responsible for Mexico's economic issues as well. Via trade regulations pushed through NAFTA, the US has made our government-subsidized corn industry undercut what had been the primary economic support in rural Mexico: local corn production. Cheap (because subsidized) US corn flooded the Mexican market, the price of corn in Mexico suddenly dropped, and suddenly you had a wave of people who have lost a huge percentage of their income. ([1], [2], [3])

We have a special obligation to Mexico because we are, in large part, the ones who messed them up in the first place.

edited 7th May '13 8:44:27 PM by Nocturna

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#54217: May 7th 2013 at 8:44:16 PM

I'd say we owe them a path to citizenship by sheer virtue of our immigration system being that morbidly fucked up. When your system's broken that badly, you don't stubbornly enforce it, you fix it and make amends.

But if you don't believe people are fleeing drug war killings, realize the annual murder rate directly related to the drug war has gone up by almost six times since 2007, and is still getting worse. Right now, the annual homicide rate in Mexico from the drug war alone is nearly equal to our total homicide rate.

Accounting for the population discrepancy, their per-capita murder rate just from the drug war is nearly three times our total one. From all homicide sources, it's nearly five times. To say nothing of the regular assassination of reporters, politicians, and law enforcement who aren't in the drug cartels' pockets.

So yeah, it kind of is a flee-worthy hellhole at the moment.

edited 7th May '13 8:51:26 PM by Pykrete

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54218: May 7th 2013 at 8:46:25 PM

Military Brochure Instructs Sexual Assault Victims: ‘Submit’

Oh lord.

EDIT: The saddest part is it might good advice in some situations.

EDIT 2: You know NAFTA was just as much Mexico's doing as it was Americas.

edited 8th May '13 1:00:52 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#54219: May 7th 2013 at 9:21:15 PM

If you want to talk about nonstarters, you might want to consider how difficult it is to have a discussion with someone who insists on seeing the world as a series of wholly disconnected compartments. The drug black market and a country's overall economy are, in fact, heavily intertwined.

If you can't accept basic relationships between interconnected issues, then there's really nothing more I have to say.

> neglecting connectedness

Every environmental issue, ever, right there.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#54220: May 7th 2013 at 9:52:06 PM

A volcano in Iceland can cause bizarre weather patterns across Europe. Hell, Krakatoa had effects visible right across the entire world. Yes, volcanoes are extreme cases, but things like pollution has to go somewhere, and it rarely stays where it came from. England is kept warm(ish) and wet by the Gulf Stream, which winds up from around Chile!. The environment rarely pays attention to national borders.

edited 7th May '13 9:52:33 PM by Zendervai

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#54221: May 7th 2013 at 10:55:47 PM

[up][up][up] I don't see why people would jump all over "submit" as if it's an awful bit of advice—it's actually common advice and is, in many cases, logical. After all, if your choice is submit and end up raped but mostly otherwise unharmed, or resist and end up raped and beaten up or dead, submission really is the best of two bad options.

The rest of the article—about how more attention should be put on preventing rape in the first place—is good, though.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54222: May 8th 2013 at 12:35:31 AM

They tried that back in 2006.

And? What happened? Gimme a link or something!

[up]Genuflect.

edited 8th May '13 12:35:46 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#54223: May 8th 2013 at 12:43:26 AM

Here

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54224: May 8th 2013 at 12:49:20 AM

So the bill died in committee?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#54225: May 8th 2013 at 1:00:37 AM

No, each house refused to consider the other house's bill.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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