Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
That's why the sensors trigger helicopter drones that can photograph the target area, so that a human observer could presumably determine if it's a real or false alert.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@storyyeller: Secure enough for Republican politicians and lobbyists. Not secure enough for Republican voters.
The fact is that illegal immigration has decreased tremendously and it's not only because of the economy (though that's the biggest factor). Years of building fences, hiring more border patrol agents, adding sensors, etc. have had an effect.
I think people who say we should secure the border first are stuck in 2006. Either that or they won't be happy until there aren't any immigrants at all.
edited 6th May '13 12:03:01 PM by storyyeller
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play![]()
The idea would seem to be to cover maximum ground with minimum physical infrastructure. You'd utilize a mobile response team to react to incursions rather than have a massive wall that just sits there doing nothing useful. I'm not going to argue with their assessment of the cost, as impeding movement across a border of the size of U.S.-Mexico is going to be expensive no matter what solution you choose.
Frankly, I'd say that hostility towards immigrants coupled with the Great Recession sapping labor demand have been the biggest sources of dissuasion. And yes, the anti-immigrant constituency wants all the Evil Mexicanos out of our country, illegal or not. Their primary motive is xenophobia; economics is a much lower priority.
edited 6th May '13 12:05:10 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Well, let's hold back on calling xenophobes "stupid" and "evil", and let's focus on what makes them xenophobic and how to defuse it. I'm a firm believer that every problem of this sort can be solved by finding the right perspective and the right words.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Time and familiarity are the most effective ways to defuse xenophobia. Every wave of immigrants into the United States has been greeted with hostility; it's taken different forms but comes from the same basic source. Each wave of immigrants eventually integrates and then joins in the hostility towards the next wave. I'm not sure that it's even possible to prevent it, but one supposes that teaching cultural diversity in our educational system might mitigate it somewhat.
I'm not calling xenophobes evil, and I'm not calling them stupid, necessarily. Ignorant, to be sure, but that's not usually their own fault. Who I do blame are the entrenched business interests who profit from the cheap labor afforded by the immigrants and thus foment xenophobia as a way to have their cake and eat it too. After all, tolerance inevitably leads to outrage that a group of people is being treated in a terrible manner. If you can benefit from immigration but keep immigrants hated, you get the best of both worlds.
edited 6th May '13 12:15:13 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"We know how to defuse xenophobia - force people into contact with others who are 'not like them.' With respect to impoverished illegal immigrants, this simply requires a great many steps (stopping the war on drugs, opening up the legal immigration funnel, providing a strong social safety net, combating the reactionary nationalism that has arisen since 9/11, etc) that the Republican party is going to fight every single itty-bitty step of the way.
It's not about words, it's not about saying the right thing, it's about experiences. It's about making people interact face to face with someone who they hate and fear based on impersonal stereotypes. Xenophobia is inherent to the human condition, but we as a country have done a great many separate things that work together to exacerbate it.
edited 6th May '13 12:15:06 PM by Karkadinn
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.Jim DeMint, Heritage Foundation put Senate immigration bill price tag at $6.3T
Diplomat claims US forces told to stand down in Benghazi
Representative Chaffetz: We were 'misled every step of the way' on Benghazi
‘Questions Are Being Asked’: Chuck Todd Takes On Senator Ted Cruz’s Potential ‘Birther Controversy’
edited 6th May '13 12:48:09 PM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016"And I am telling you, I'm not going. You're the best land I've ever worked in, there's no way I'm ever goin', no no no no way! There's no way I'm living E'taos Unius, I'm not leaving without you... I don't wanna be free. I'm staying. I'm stayin'. And you! And you! And you too! You're gonna love me! We're part of the same place. We're part of the same time. We both shed the same blood. We both have been working hard. Stop all the rivers, push, strike, and kill. I'm not gonna leave you, there's no way I will."
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.It means; "Immigrants and other minorities are here to stay, and don't expect to kick them out by being mean, oppressive or even violent. They have a right to stay, and they'll stand for it. And you will love them eventually as part of the same land. So suck it up." As an immigrant myself, I could easily make this my personal slogan whenever someone tells me something along the lines of "If you don't like it here you can go home." "Home is here, bitch."
edited 6th May '13 1:38:44 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.The Irony
Mike Huckabee: Obama will be ousted over Benghazi
edited 6th May '13 3:27:01 PM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

Seems to be something of that nature.