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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#54076: May 6th 2013 at 9:34:51 AM

Seems to be something of that nature.

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#54077: May 6th 2013 at 9:39:35 AM

Besides, our border is already "secure".

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#54078: May 6th 2013 at 9:40:33 AM

@storyyeller: Secure enough for Republican politicians and lobbyists. Not secure enough for Republican voters.

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#54079: May 6th 2013 at 10:11:21 AM

If I recall, they've tried stuff like seismic detectors before, but found that they were constantly being tripped by the feral hogs that live through the southwest. I'd imagine that the false alarms would lead to a sort of "boy/machine that cried wolf" scenario. . .

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#54080: May 6th 2013 at 11:23:25 AM

That's why the sensors trigger helicopter drones that can photograph the target area, so that a human observer could presumably determine if it's a real or false alert.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#54082: May 6th 2013 at 12:01:57 PM

@storyyeller: Secure enough for Republican politicians and lobbyists. Not secure enough for Republican voters.

The fact is that illegal immigration has decreased tremendously and it's not only because of the economy (though that's the biggest factor). Years of building fences, hiring more border patrol agents, adding sensors, etc. have had an effect.

I think people who say we should secure the border first are stuck in 2006. Either that or they won't be happy until there aren't any immigrants at all.

edited 6th May '13 12:03:01 PM by storyyeller

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#54083: May 6th 2013 at 12:03:01 PM

[up][up]The idea would seem to be to cover maximum ground with minimum physical infrastructure. You'd utilize a mobile response team to react to incursions rather than have a massive wall that just sits there doing nothing useful. I'm not going to argue with their assessment of the cost, as impeding movement across a border of the size of U.S.-Mexico is going to be expensive no matter what solution you choose.

[up] Frankly, I'd say that hostility towards immigrants coupled with the Great Recession sapping labor demand have been the biggest sources of dissuasion. And yes, the anti-immigrant constituency wants all the Evil Mexicanos out of our country, illegal or not. Their primary motive is xenophobia; economics is a much lower priority.

edited 6th May '13 12:05:10 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54084: May 6th 2013 at 12:07:17 PM

Well, let's hold back on calling xenophobes "stupid" and "evil", and let's focus on what makes them xenophobic and how to defuse it. I'm a firm believer that every problem of this sort can be solved by finding the right perspective and the right words.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#54085: May 6th 2013 at 12:12:24 PM

Time and familiarity are the most effective ways to defuse xenophobia. Every wave of immigrants into the United States has been greeted with hostility; it's taken different forms but comes from the same basic source. Each wave of immigrants eventually integrates and then joins in the hostility towards the next wave. I'm not sure that it's even possible to prevent it, but one supposes that teaching cultural diversity in our educational system might mitigate it somewhat.

I'm not calling xenophobes evil, and I'm not calling them stupid, necessarily. Ignorant, to be sure, but that's not usually their own fault. Who I do blame are the entrenched business interests who profit from the cheap labor afforded by the immigrants and thus foment xenophobia as a way to have their cake and eat it too. After all, tolerance inevitably leads to outrage that a group of people is being treated in a terrible manner. If you can benefit from immigration but keep immigrants hated, you get the best of both worlds.

edited 6th May '13 12:15:13 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#54086: May 6th 2013 at 12:14:03 PM

Israel is attacking Damascus that sounds like something worth discussing

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#54087: May 6th 2013 at 12:14:31 PM

We know how to defuse xenophobia - force people into contact with others who are 'not like them.' With respect to impoverished illegal immigrants, this simply requires a great many steps (stopping the war on drugs, opening up the legal immigration funnel, providing a strong social safety net, combating the reactionary nationalism that has arisen since 9/11, etc) that the Republican party is going to fight every single itty-bitty step of the way.

It's not about words, it's not about saying the right thing, it's about experiences. It's about making people interact face to face with someone who they hate and fear based on impersonal stereotypes. Xenophobia is inherent to the human condition, but we as a country have done a great many separate things that work together to exacerbate it.

edited 6th May '13 12:15:06 PM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#54089: May 6th 2013 at 12:46:41 PM

That price tag sounds waaaaay out of bounds. And partisan, too.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54090: May 6th 2013 at 12:53:33 PM

"And I am telling you, I'm not going. You're the best land I've ever worked in, there's no way I'm ever goin', no no no no way! There's no way I'm living E'taos Unius, I'm not leaving without you... I don't wanna be free. I'm staying. I'm stayin'. And you! And you! And you too! You're gonna love me! We're part of the same place. We're part of the same time. We both shed the same blood. We both have been working hard. Stop all the rivers, push, strike, and kill. I'm not gonna leave you, there's no way I will."

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#54091: May 6th 2013 at 12:57:25 PM

[up]That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Regarding Cruz: There's... some black irony right there, but I wish any and ALL birth nonsense would die in a fire already. Cruz is a citizen, Obama is a citizen, let's not reduce ourselves to the same tactics as the opponent.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54092: May 6th 2013 at 1:04:52 PM

Oh, it does, you just failed to grasp it.tongue

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#54093: May 6th 2013 at 1:14:43 PM

You quoted something almost entirely out of context, with no explanation, and I'm supposed to grasp it? I don't think that's my fault here.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#54094: May 6th 2013 at 1:15:08 PM

[up][up][up][up]Partisan? The Heritage Foundation? Never!tongue

edited 6th May '13 1:27:39 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#54095: May 6th 2013 at 1:18:24 PM

[up][up] Read it in a Southern or Hillbilly Accent...

Keep Rolling On
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#54096: May 6th 2013 at 1:23:10 PM

[up]All that does is make it sound like Handle was making a bigoted and ultimately empty and unhelpful statement about people I happen to live near.

edited 6th May '13 1:23:26 PM by AceofSpades

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#54097: May 6th 2013 at 1:29:19 PM

Also the comments on that immigration article were painful to read.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#54098: May 6th 2013 at 1:35:48 PM

Oh, for the love of God...

It means; "Immigrants and other minorities are here to stay, and don't expect to kick them out by being mean, oppressive or even violent. They have a right to stay, and they'll stand for it. And you will love them eventually as part of the same land. So suck it up." As an immigrant myself, I could easily make this my personal slogan whenever someone tells me something along the lines of "If you don't like it here you can go home." "Home is here, bitch."

edited 6th May '13 1:38:44 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#54100: May 6th 2013 at 3:36:27 PM

[up] Benghazi blarg. Can these people actually come up with any good evidence? They keep pressing the government to reveal evidence, when the theorists seem to have evidence of their own. That they aren't sharing. That isn't suspicious at all!


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