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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#53951: May 4th 2013 at 7:08:41 AM

I'd assume that they can.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#53952: May 4th 2013 at 7:35:24 AM

Welp. This isn't good. Some think we're going to get dragged into this.

That was likely as soon as Assad started using chemical weapons. Seeing as Obama specifically said that chemical weapons were a red line.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
lordnyx Since: Aug, 2009
#53953: May 4th 2013 at 8:12:03 AM

[up] Obama says many things, he said he'd close Gitmo ~4 years ago for example.

@driver licenses Well those aren't generally enshrined in the state/federal constitutions like guns now are they?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#53954: May 4th 2013 at 8:20:41 AM

Yeah, guns have the 2nd Amendment. Driver's licenses haven't.

Also, it was Congress that blocked the Guantanamo closure.

edited 4th May '13 8:21:07 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#53955: May 4th 2013 at 8:46:04 AM

Yes but the amendment starts out with "A well-regulated..." for a reason. It doesn't mean "Anybody and everybody should be able to have guns." It means guns should be available but there need to be logical restrictions on them. I think preventing people from being allowed to use them until, say 13, is a reasonable restriction.

edited 4th May '13 8:46:16 AM by Kostya

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#53956: May 4th 2013 at 9:00:46 AM

It doesn't even specify guns! That's the part that confuses me the most. Give people boomerangs or teach them to fence and you have the amendment fulfilled.

Hell, one of the definitions for the phrase "to bear arms" is actually: "to serve as a member of the military or of contending forces."

edited 4th May '13 9:04:41 AM by Zendervai

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#53957: May 4th 2013 at 9:04:33 AM

I think the supreme court decided that it applied to guns in a previous ruling.

edited 4th May '13 9:04:46 AM by Kostya

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#53958: May 4th 2013 at 9:05:04 AM

Indeed — SCOTUS fairly firmly came down on the side of "it means guns, and that's that".

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#53959: May 4th 2013 at 9:09:14 AM

Even though that's the case you can still justify regulations because the word itself is in the amendment. In fact it's in the very first clause.

edit: It also makes it clear that it's talking about a militia for the purpose of defending the country. It's not about overthrowing a tyrannical government but that's another discussion entirely.

edited 4th May '13 9:10:01 AM by Kostya

IConfuseMe from Washington, DC Since: Jan, 2010
#53960: May 4th 2013 at 10:04:39 AM

Why? Why would you give a five year old a gun? Most five year old can't even pee straight let alone shoot straight!

Just goes to show, I think, that just because you can purchase a gun legally, does not mean you can handle one responsibly.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#53961: May 4th 2013 at 11:44:56 AM

Today is the anniversary of the Haymarket affair. The day after a strike in which the police fired on the strikers in 1886, a bunch of anarchists organized a demonstration in Haymarket Square in Chicago. Not only anarchists attended, but there were other members of labor. The demonstration was non-violent and was in support of the eight hour work day. After a speech, when police were advancing on the crowd, a bomb was lobbed by an unknown assailant. The bomb killed a police officer and mortally wounded six others. The police fired on the crowd as they fled, reloaded and fired again.

The police arrested 8 anarchists, known as the Haymarket Eight, George Engel, Samuel Fielden, Adolph Fischer, Louis Lingg, Oscar Neebe, Albert Parsons, Michael Schwab, and August Spies. Five of them, Adolph Fischer, Albert Parsons, George Engel, Louis Lingg, and Oscar Neebe weren't there when the bomb went off. When the bomb went off, Schwab was making a speech in full view of everyone while Spies and Fielden were descending from the speakers wagon, again in full view of everyone. The prosecution made no pretense of them having thrown the bomb, but argued that, since they had not actively discouraged the bomb thrower, who is still not known to this day and there was no evidence that any of the defendants knew the bomber or knew he/she was going to throw the bomb, the Haymarket Eight were just as guilty as the bomber and showed circumstantial evidence that one of them could've been the bombmaker, but no hard proof. The judge displayed open hostility toward the defendants, and the bailiff helped select jurors who would be prejudiced against the defendants. The media showed hostility toward the defendants, as well, leading Edward Aveling, the nephew of Karl Marx, to remark, "If these men are ultimately hanged, it will be the Chicago Tribune that has done it," during the trial. The defendants appealed up to the Supreme Court, but were denied.

In the end, seven, George Engel, Samuel Fielden, Adolph Fischer, Louis Lingg, Albert Parsons, Michael Schwab, and August Spies, were sentenced to death. Oscar Neebe got 15 years in prison. Before the executions, Louis Lingg committed suicide while the governor commuted Samuel Fielden and Michael Schwab's sentences to life in prison. The remaining four sung La Marseillaise, which was the anthem of radical labor at the time. Just before being executed, August Spies shouted "The time will come when our silence will be more powerful than the voices you strangle today!" The four were hanged, and died slowly.

edited 4th May '13 11:48:43 AM by deathpigeon

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#53962: May 4th 2013 at 11:52:53 AM

They died sticking it to the man, but what did that achieve?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#53963: May 4th 2013 at 11:55:29 AM

[up][up]

Solidarity.

[up]

Standing up for what you believe is right is never futile.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#53964: May 4th 2013 at 12:10:47 PM

I've always been a fan of kneeling before the lords and then pulling the rug from under them. I'm interested in achieving change, not in being a Doomed Moral Victor.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#53965: May 4th 2013 at 12:11:37 PM

[up][up][up] They tried their hardest to not get convicted since, you know, they didn't do it.

As for what it achieved... Well, it sparked demonstrations by labor all across the nation and caused all the various factions of labor to come together and work together for the eight hour work day. Arguably, we might have gotten that much later than we did if it weren't for the Haymarket affair and the aftermath.

edited 4th May '13 12:11:53 PM by deathpigeon

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#53966: May 4th 2013 at 12:17:56 PM

[up][tup]For what it's worth, I approve of this immensely. It's good to see that blatant injustice can still get people riled up sometimes, even when the privately-owned press does everything to smear the names of the accused.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#53967: May 4th 2013 at 12:24:54 PM

Their trial is also what inspired Emma Goldman to become an anarchist.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#53969: May 4th 2013 at 12:31:06 PM

Except when you do double shifts.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#53970: May 4th 2013 at 12:36:43 PM

The fact that we don't work from dawn to dusk seven days a week is why the eight hour work day is important. That's why their deaths weren't in vain. What the state did to them was horrible, but good things can come from tragedies. It's important we don't forget them or what they fought and died for.

[down] Fixed.

edited 4th May '13 12:57:05 PM by deathpigeon

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#53971: May 4th 2013 at 12:37:24 PM

[up] Eight hour workday. Forty hour work week. tongue

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#53972: May 4th 2013 at 12:42:33 PM

Yeah. Cause, right now, it's being lost: "There's a recession; work more and get paid the same, or be fired"

edited 4th May '13 12:42:49 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#53973: May 4th 2013 at 1:09:34 PM

Isn't someone trying to change overtime laws right now? I wonder if this was planned or if it's a coincidence.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#53974: May 4th 2013 at 1:19:32 PM

Time to fight back. Note that they're using right-to-work laws against unions rather than the police; I count that as a minor improvement.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#53975: May 4th 2013 at 1:20:40 PM

And the police are better than the Pinkertons...

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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