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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Also, considering the fact that succession heavily affects the rest of the union, I would want both a vote from the state wanting to secede, and the country as a whole.
It's still US land.
Right. Stupid spellcheck. I mean, it wouldn't have been spelled correctly anyway.
edited 1st May '13 9:53:06 AM by Drtentacles
"Succeed" and "Secede" are very different words, Dr. Tentacles.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'm looking for a justification to include "saccade" in a responding sentence and really confuse everyone.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.People are actually talking about secession? I was just making puns...
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI did not know that saccade
was a word. You learn something new every day.
- Succeed (v): to follow in order; to obtain a desired thing or achieve a goal.
- Archaic: Succede (same root as precede), which is probably the origin of "succession".
- Succession (n): an act of following in sequence; a passing of royal powers.
- Secede (v): to split from or withdraw from membership of a political union.
- Secession (n): the act of seceding.
- Saccade (n): a sudden jerking movement; the act of checking a horse quickly with a single strong pull of the reins.
We're talking about it (secession) because Arizona seems determined to violate the Constitutional authority of the Federal government by making gold and silver legal tender. Assuming that the law is signed and that one or more courts strikes it down, it would add grist to the "States' Rights" hysteria mill, which was the basis for the secession that led to the Civil War.
It is likely that any modern attempt at secession would lead to military action, because it would not be accomplished without some form of political coup in the state(s) in question. There's no way you'd get a majority of voters in any state to go for it. I do not believe that it would be followed by annexation sans rights, though. That would only fuel conspiracy theorists and not accomplish anything useful. The military would most likely have to step in to remove the state government that voted for secession and force new elections.
In fact, at the first sign that a secession movement of that nature might take place (one not supported by a majority of people in the state), I'd expect the executive branch to step in preemptively, with Supreme Court backing.
Edit: Sorry for serial editing.
edited 1st May '13 12:17:53 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Famous author John Green pitches into the "online sales tax" issue.
Fellow troper Vyctorian also has a response to the topic.
edited 1st May '13 12:57:55 PM by chihuahua0
Actually, Fighteer, economics of the gold standard aside, Arizona actually is in the Constitutional clear here:
If Arizona wants to accept minted gold and silver coins as tender, that's up to them, I suppose. I can't see what harm it would do. I don't think they have the authority to mint their own, though.
Also, wouldn't gold and silver coins have to be accepted at face value, not at weight value? I don't know how many people would seriously attempt to pay for something with an old-school $20 gold coin whose worth by weight is probably more like $500, and whose collectible value is far greater.
Edit: Ahh, here we go. The U.S. Mint's American Eagle webpage
lists the various denominations and types of bullion coins that are available. You can't buy them privately, but they are available to wholesalers, dealers, and other enterprises.
- 1-ounce platinum coin: $100
- 1-ounce gold coin: $50
- 1/2-ounce gold coin: $25
- 1/4-ounce gold coin: $10
- 1/10-ounce gold coin: $5
- 1-ounce silver coin: $1
The face value of those coins is far lower than their weight value, as far as I understand. Anyone who actually wants to use them in cash transactions is an idiot.
edited 1st May '13 1:39:39 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I did some more research on bullion and precious metal coinage. Here are the results, taken from live data at Monex
:
| Coin type | Weight (oz) | Face value | Bullion value (oz) | Trading value |
| Platinum | 1 | $100 | 1,478.00 | 1,654.00 |
| Gold | 1 | $50 | 1,456.96 | 1,549.00 |
| Gold | 0.5 | $25 | 728.48 | |
| Gold | 0.25 | $10 | 364.24 | |
| Gold | 0.1 | $5 | 145.70 | |
| Silver | 1 | $1 | 23.59 | 28.65 |
My conclusion is that, as above, anyone using these to buy stuff at face value is insane to the point of needing to be locked up.
edited 1st May '13 2:27:37 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"So what, this Arizona law is a scheme by businesses to cheat goldbugs out of their coin stashes? Makes as much sense as anything else, I suppose.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"We already had a tax on people who fail math, it's called the lottery. I dunno why Arizona decided to institute another.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.That makes me wonder if the law would require businesses to accept gold and silver at weight value rather than face value, but I don't see any such details, and that would be unconstitutional as far as I can tell anyway.
"The dollar system and all of the other derivative currencies, including the euro, are a recipe for worldwide bankruptcy," Weiner told lawmakers at an earlier hearing, adding that a "sound and honest money system such as gold and silver" was needed to bring stability.
So much fail here.
edited 1st May '13 2:12:29 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"It has the same value as any other substance: what people are willing to trade for it. Fiat currency is no different. The goldbugs are deluding themselves; unfortunately, it's a very popular delusion.
edited 1st May '13 2:17:35 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Doubelposting due to topic change: This
is the immigration bill they are all talking about, yes?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman