Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
So some of these people are so obsessed with propping up the military and ensuring the right to bear arms that they're actually hurting them. These people are so short-sighted they're looking backwards.
EDIT: Wait, they're so short-sighted they can't even do that. They can't see outside of their own heads.
edited 29th Apr '13 6:11:44 AM by Zendervai
I do question what idiot thought it'd be a good idea to have congress apparently get to decide what the military gets budgeted for without having to take the military's opinion into account.
I also find the argument "where are we gonna get our tanks from if we stop making them? china?" hilarious, because it apparently seems to ignore tiny issues like the possibility of tanks becoming outdated altogether.
edited 29th Apr '13 6:49:45 AM by Midgetsnowman
How exactly can you enforce a mandate of "take the military's opinion into account when deciding its budget"? Maybe set it so that the President can veto the military budget if the Defense Secretary and the Joint Chiefs of Staff present him with a joint official letter/memo/whateveryacallit voicing their objections and reasoning (which have to be non-frivolous), and if the Congress can't work up an acceptable budget, the previous budget gets a limited extension?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.That is why everything goes through committee. The people on the committee have a better knowledge of what the committee is in charge of than the average congressperson and can make better/more-informed decisions. *looks at house econ committee members* In theory.
Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!The problem with committees is, as any examination of the science committee will tell you. The people on committees have a good chance of knowing NOTHING about their committee's field.
After all, theres more than one person on the science committees in congress who either believes in creationism or denies climate change
I've figured out how I'd like to reform the Senate filibuster: while the votes on legislation are one per Senator, votes for closure are based on proportional representation. That is, the more populous a Senator's state, the more votes that Senator gets for saying yea or nay on the specific procedural vote of ending or sustaining a filibuster.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.That's only partisan if you expect the Republican party to remain entrenched in 'appeal to a minority' in perpetuity.
And if they do, they've pretty much flunked how to democracy anyway and deserve the full repercussions for that.
Personally I don't understand why, with all the checks and balances we already have in place, we also need to give the minority the power to filibuster. It's like telling an entire shopping mall to close down because one person in it decided to throw a tantrum. Except he's not even throwing a tantrum, he's just filing a formal motion to say that he's throwing a tantrum while he continues to go around enjoying his day.
How is giving people the formally authorized power to bring the business of government to a screeching halt whenever they want EVER a good idea, no matter how many brakes you put on it? That's what protests are for, and protests are sufficiently inconvenient that people only bother to do them when it's over something that really matters to them, instead of just using it as another way to stick it to the political opposition.
edited 29th Apr '13 9:43:24 AM by Karkadinn
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.![]()
I'm sorry, but I don't care. The Republican party can reliably pick up Senators in Texas, Florida, and Louisiana. That's not an insignificant chunk of the population. They want to vote against legislation? They have their one vote against legislation when it actually gets voted on. This bullshit that happened with the background checks bill, where the representatives of less than a third of the country's population blocked legislation that had approval ratings of over 80% among every political demographic (including Republicans and NRA members), needs to stop. If you want to block legislation, you don't get a coward's veto in the filibuster. You can offer alternatives, negotiate with senators in the other side, ask for other options, and reach across the aisle - you know, like politicians in both parties are supposed to do.
edited 29th Apr '13 9:50:13 AM by RadicalTaoist
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.Meh, I never understood the outrage over the filibuster.
Most bills that die in in the filibustered Senate would never have survived the House.
Former members of Congress to hear week of testimony about space aliens
Sandra O’Connor worries Supreme Court was wrong to rule in Bush v. Gore
edited 29th Apr '13 12:37:21 PM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
I think the apocalypse has come,...I actually agree with Scalia.
What I mean is,Gore accepted and no matter which way the election went,because of how damn partisan that election was,it was either the Dems or GOP that would lose out.If the Supreme Court wasn't involved,the affair would've gone on for longer and that would've been terrible.
edited 29th Apr '13 2:45:43 PM by terlwyth
Another "you've gotta be kidding me" moment, via Charles Pierce:
With Bags of Cash, C.I.A. Seeks Influence in Afghanistan
[...]
No one mentions the agency's money at cabinet meetings. It is handled by a small clique at the National Security Council, including its administrative chief, Mohammed Zia Salehi, Afghan officials said. Mr. Salehi, though, is better known for being arrested in 2010 in connection with a sprawling, American-led investigation that tied together Afghan cash smuggling, Taliban finances and the opium trade. Mr. Karzai had him released within hours, and the C.I.A. then helped persuade the Obama administration to back off its anti-corruption push, American officials said. After his release, Mr. Salehi jokingly came up with a motto that succinctly summed up America's conflicting priorities. He was, he began telling colleagues, "an enemy of the F.B.I., and a hero to the C.I.A."
![]()
He seems to be channeling O'Reilly there. I don't really agree with the position that just because something is old, it means that it's no longer relevant.
Florida, for example, still is a good case for us needing to regulate the election process to ensure transparency, ease of access and overall clarity. The fact that one state's system was so fucked up that the Supreme bloody Court had resolve it is pretty damning.
edited 29th Apr '13 11:03:14 AM by Karkadinn
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.I'd like to remind everyone that last year, when authorizing a military spending bill to which the generals objected to because it was too much money, Paul Ryan accused them of lying about it.
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen FryMan, don't even get me started about the Bush v Gore case. Pet peeve doesn't even begin to describe it.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.Representative Peter DeFazio is going to introduce a bill to repeal the 75 year pre-fund requirement for the postal service.
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen FryChris Christie Says No Regrets About Post-Sandy Obama Embrace, Praises: He’s ‘Kept Every Promise’
edited 29th Apr '13 12:44:27 PM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016In theory, we could use a state ratifying convention with overwhelming public majority to go all the way up to a constitutional amendment.
In practice, lolno.
So in other words, throwing out the entire point of the senate to disproportionately represent the interests of smaller states that would otherwise be lost in the House.
How about no.
Depends. The House is considerably more extreme than the Senate. Filibusters rarely even happen there unless Something Horrible gets passed by the House with an overwhelming majority (Wyden yanking at the bit to filibuster CISPA). They tend to filibuster by reaction to dysfunctional policy actually getting through than as a preemptive stonewall to all opposing policy.
...I read the comments on that hill article on chris chrstie, and I'm wondering if they have any factual basis in reality. Are there really people without power still from the storm, or are those guys just blowing smoke? Or is it really not christie's fault for the above, and it's congress doing the delay?

Tanks For Nothing!
Except they aren't really helping, since the USA has tanks growing out its arse. It's more "give us some control over our own fucking budget and let us buy stuff we actually need".
Perhaps they could extend basic training by a couple of weeks or more. Be a better use than needless tanks.
Still emblematic of the "pork-barrel complex"note . For instance, a US Army accounting error
was worth more than the entire defense budget of Slovenia.
edited 29th Apr '13 4:49:05 AM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei