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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#52926: Apr 11th 2013 at 4:42:09 AM

[up][up]

And then the youtube traffic kills google, which kills the Internet and the world ends.

THE END.

"You can reply to this Message!"
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#52927: Apr 11th 2013 at 5:37:39 AM

It is eery to be living in a time where we are being saved by Republican intransigence, in the sense that a Democratic President is agreeing to their awful suggestions and they're still too stubborn to take yes for an answer.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#52928: Apr 11th 2013 at 5:49:40 AM

That may well be the ultimate irony of this situation, yes. I just think that if Obama and his team are counting on this to get them off the hook for their apparent capitulation, they are playing just about the weakest possible game they could be at this point. I mean, it's a de facto concession that they have no ability to conduct policy at all.

edited 11th Apr '13 5:50:51 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52929: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:00:42 AM

Perhaps I'm not a brilliant politician, but I utterly fail to see what Obama gains from this. He's not going to get Republican support, he doesn't need to pander to voters, and even if he did, he's more likely to alienate them over one of the things they elected him in on.

There's nothing to be gained from this, and a lot to loose.

He should just veto every single Republican anything that crosses his desk until they shut up and listen.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#52930: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:11:14 AM

But then he'd be impeached,..and we'd be stuck with a genuinely destructive GOP President.

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52931: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:12:57 AM

I agree with Serocco, Charles Pierce and Cenk Uygur. It's really starting to seem like Obama wants to slash the social programs.

There is no other way to explain why he's surrendering it right off the bat. If he was using it as a way to make the GOP look bad so they can lose in 2014, he missed it, because he's still leaving it on the table after they said no.

edited 11th Apr '13 6:24:27 AM by Sledgesaul

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#52932: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:30:43 AM

Which would mean in turn that he has bought into deficit hysteria, which means that his advisors believe it, which speaks volumes about the circle-jerk of "inside the Beltway" political thinking.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52933: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:31:42 AM

"We’re not going to have the White House forever, folks. If he doesn’t do this, Paul Ryan is going to do it for us in a few years."

That is an important quote. If true, there's a sense of fatalism here.

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52934: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:44:27 AM

So? Might as well at least let it be remembered that it was the republicans that did that. What happened to Hope and Change?

That's like saying "Well, someone's going to shoot this puppy eventually. Meh. Might as well be me."

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52935: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:45:23 AM

Yeah, that Hope and Change is gonna lead to the social programs getting cut by a Democrat.

So much for that.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#52936: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:47:21 AM

I think it's a form of pandering. Specifically, the "social programs are spilling red ink like a open floodgate; let's fix it" type pandering.

Or some clever wedge maneuvre against the GOP, since they were proposing such cuts in the first place and would have to do them in order to balance the budget without raising taxes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#52937: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:49:04 AM

@terlwyth: Impeached? Who the hell is going to impeach him? The Senate Democrats?

@Dr Tentacles: If anything was getting to his desk at all, we wouldn't be in nearly as much of a mess as we are now. The veto isn't even relevant right now.

edited 11th Apr '13 6:49:18 AM by Ramidel

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52938: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:54:05 AM

[up][up] Obama is not that good of a politician. No chess maneuvering here.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#52939: Apr 11th 2013 at 6:58:44 AM

As far as I can tell, Obama's at his wit's end. He can't find any way to deal with the Republicans, so he's throwing out a lot of attempts in the hope something will stick.

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52940: Apr 11th 2013 at 7:06:44 AM

He's been calling for cuts to the social programs as far back as 2006, when he was still a Senator.

Yeah, I'd say he's wanted to cut the social programs for quite a while.

edited 11th Apr '13 7:19:50 AM by Sledgesaul

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#52941: Apr 11th 2013 at 8:31:56 AM

I agree with Serocco, Charles Pierce and Cenk Uygur. It's really starting to seem like Obama wants to slash the social programs.
BUT HE COULD HAVE DONE THAT AGES AGO. He could have done it during the fiscal cliff negotiations. Shit, he could have done it discreetly over the Obamacare fight.

There is little to explain this behaviour besides incompetence, fatalism, and a desperate need to pander to the Beltway courtier media. This hints of an information bubble that badly needs popping.

@Terlywyth: What Ramidel said. They can't impeach Obama; they've already tried. He's surrendering from a position of superiority, and so far the only reason we're not screwed is because the House has gone feral and won't accept surrender.

edited 11th Apr '13 8:35:19 AM by RadicalTaoist

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52942: Apr 11th 2013 at 8:37:12 AM

He already offered to cut the social programs during the fiscal cliff debate last year.

We're in a topsey turvy world where Serocco's fearmongering over the social programs ends up being true.

edited 11th Apr '13 8:53:19 AM by Sledgesaul

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#52943: Apr 11th 2013 at 8:57:43 AM

And they didn't accept it then. So he should know the way to do it would have been to talk to Blue Dog democrats and DINO types and discreetly get it into negotiations. He might have had better odds trying it in his first two years.

There is a culture of surrender among Beltway Democrats and it has got to go. Shit, listen to David Axelrod. They actually believe that their job once they get elected is to betray the people who elected them. And the GOP leaps to take advantage of that.

Time for another big round of protests, people. Marches on Washington and all that. If the Democrats are sissies, it follows that to get what we want out of them, we need to scare them more than the GOP does. Chained CPI will guarantee that they give away the Senate in 2014 and the White House in 2016. Apparently BO won't hear that unless we're yelling loud enough to drown out the nonsense people are telling him.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52944: Apr 11th 2013 at 8:59:19 AM

If the social programs get cut, the Republicans will win in 2014.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52946: Apr 11th 2013 at 9:02:51 AM

It may lead to a Republican President in 2016 as well.

So much for thinking the DNC was looking after us.

edited 11th Apr '13 9:25:48 AM by Sledgesaul

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#52947: Apr 11th 2013 at 9:25:49 AM

“The president has essentially said this is his end point and this is a compromise proposal,” Van Hollen said. “Republicans have rejected this as a compromise. From the Republican perspective, the president’s budget is the starting point for negotiation.”

White House officials say Obama felt that, as president, it was important he stand by his original offer and include it in his budget proposal.

“We want to make clear that it’s something that we’re willing to do. To not put it in [the budget] would be a conversation disconnected with reality,” a senior White House official said. Failing to do so, the official said, would have provoked howls from Republicans that “you moved the goal posts.”

I am reminded of a post I made quite a while back... I think it was even in this thread... where the gist was that reactionaries like the current Republican establishment make their own points of attack even if you don't give them any rational ones. To compromise with that is to place your neck in the jaws of a wolf. Okay, so now the president can't be accused of moving goal posts... but the Republicans are the ones moving the goal posts instead, and who is going to call them on that? No one who has the power to make them do anything different.

My biggest fear is that what the New York Times quote above said will be proven true, and that the GOP will try to bargain for further 'compromise' even past the president's opening offer. And succeed, because our president has no damned spine. It would be basically the same as having a Republican in the White House, only with more tax payer money wasted in the bargaining process.

As a secondary, idle thought, it also frustrates me that the White House feels the need to conform to a reality molded in large part by a faction that has no shame about lying when it suits them. If you're not willing to counter-dictate what 'reality' is in the first place, then you're always going to be playing Atlas to the next Chicken Little disaster.

[up] That's not really fair, Sledge. The DNC != the president. They're not responsible for his decisions as such.

edited 11th Apr '13 9:29:53 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52948: Apr 11th 2013 at 9:31:30 AM

Obama's legacy will be one of his compete and utter disregard over his Hope and Change campaign.

Drtentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52949: Apr 11th 2013 at 9:33:38 AM

Obama...that's...not how you bargain.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#52950: Apr 11th 2013 at 9:34:15 AM

[up][up]We get it. Obama sell out. Obama bad. Oh, doom! Gloom! Oom! Rinse and repeat. <_<

edited 11th Apr '13 9:34:46 AM by Euodiachloris


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