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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52876: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:28:30 AM

It's not so much lobbying as it is corporate personhood, and moreover, money equaling speech, as well as money itself.

Citizens United and Buckley v Valeo are two of the three major bills I remember that ratified both. Wolf-Pac.com calls for a constitutional convention to amend the constitution to remove that corporate personhood.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52877: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:29:58 AM

I remember when Justice Roberts said that. And quite frankly, I kinda dig it. But then I don't think Obamacare is evil. I just don't like the penalty bit. A lot of people don't.

My point is it's not because "Obama came up with it."

It was an honor
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52878: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:30:38 AM

Anyone interested in Wolf-Pac.com?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#52879: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:33:27 AM

A lot of people don't like the "penalty", so why not go with universal national health insurance, Starship?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#52881: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:36:02 AM

We could take Medicare or Medicaid (the latter is the more effective of the two) and expand it to cover 100% of citizens. The infrastructure is already in place, and the administrative burden would actually decrease because the change would do away with means testing.

It would also solve the problem of doctors refusing to take Medicare/Medicaid patients, because if they did, they would have no patients at all except the ones willing to pay list price out of pocket.

edited 10th Apr '13 9:37:42 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52882: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:37:22 AM

Now that we've fixed that debacle, what are your thoughts of the constitutional convention idea?

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52883: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:37:25 AM

I would've gone along with it.

It was an honor
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52884: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:39:18 AM

The ones spearheading the campaign for a constitutional convention, if you can believe it, is The Young Turks.

They call it Wolf-Pac.com. It's a volunteer thing. They managed to get a Texas Republican to sponsor a bill for it.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#52885: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:39:23 AM

I don't think that a constitutional convention is practical or necessary at this point. For one thing, there just isn't enough national consensus on the issues to garner the supermajority needed to ratify it. The other problem is that the calls for it have been coming largely from the right, not the left, and I fear the descent into anarchy that might take place if we offer up the possibility of throwing out our existing government.

Pushing through an amendment to eliminate corporate personhood sounds like a great idea, though.

edited 10th Apr '13 9:40:15 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#52886: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:40:22 AM

@ Fighteer: No, I mean the Federal Government taking over direct operation of all (or most) Hospitals and Ambulance Services, and employing Doctors, Nurses and Medical Staff directly. I mean, literally, the NHS...in America!

edited 10th Apr '13 9:41:04 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#52887: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:41:55 AM

@Greenmantle: I'm not convinced that a fully socialized solution is necessary, although I don't object to it in principle. Many countries successfully combine national insurance with private providers, and it seems to work okay. The point is to get universal health coverage. Whether it's more efficient for the providers to be public or private is something we can hash out at a later time.

We do have a model of public healthcare providers, however: the Veterans' Administration. It works pretty well currently, although it didn't always. We could adapt the VA model to fully socialized medicine.

edited 10th Apr '13 9:42:47 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52888: Apr 10th 2013 at 9:42:35 AM

Wolf-Pac.com has found their most success in Texas and Vermont. Politicians from both parties in either of those states have already brought separate bills up to the house, calling for a constitutional convention.

If you can believe it, state representatives actually listen to you. If you know the phone number to your local representative, you can actually schedule a meeting with that politician and tell them about Wolf-Pac.com. It's how Wolf-Pac.com managed to get, I repeat, a Texas Republican to sign up for it. It's not some anarchy thing. It's not some isolated vocal minority.

This is their website, detailing their goal and plan for all of it. You can become a member via donations. You can volunteer as well.

edited 10th Apr '13 9:56:51 AM by Sledgesaul

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#52889: Apr 10th 2013 at 10:04:03 AM

But, as Fighteer has said, there isn't near enough of a consensus to get any meaningful change passed. And it would probably leave all involved even more bitter and divided.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52890: Apr 10th 2013 at 10:10:51 AM

They're in all fifty states.

That alone shows that your political leanings don't matter when everyone agrees to reduce the influence of money in politics.

You claim it won't work, but that's too cynical. All you need to do is talk to your representatives, try to convince them of reducing the power of money in politics. Actually try to talk to your representatives. It's really that simple.

edited 10th Apr '13 10:15:35 AM by Sledgesaul

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#52891: Apr 10th 2013 at 10:38:58 AM

Getting a handful of Representatives (who I do applaud for actually listening to their electorate, don't get me wrong) to support reform isn't enough. They will invariably be drowned out by the mainstream at best or become politically tainted and lose their jobs at worst. You need broad support throughout the entire country, either through getting both parties on board (not happening) or getting a truly mass movement going (not happening unless a serious and obvious crisis goes down).

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52892: Apr 10th 2013 at 10:40:04 AM

That's one flaw with it, but at the same time, that shouldn't stop anyone from trying.

It's not handfuls, either, by the way. Tons of local representatives are in the process of sponsoring more calls for a convention. Some have introduced it to the floor via bill.

Minnesota and California have already introduced their resolutions, and are likely to pass, as an example.

edited 10th Apr '13 10:51:11 AM by Sledgesaul

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#52893: Apr 10th 2013 at 10:50:24 AM

Aww, buck up. I'm sure we'll have another financial crisis to achieve new momentum for reform again soon! ;)

Between a too-conciliatory president, Reid backing down on his filibuster reform threats and Occupy Wall Street's organizational problems, we've lost tons of that necessary momentum. It's extra hard to get voters enthused immediately after they've been enthused and then disappointed, and they're usually pretty apathetic to start with.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52894: Apr 10th 2013 at 10:52:28 AM

Those are national politics. Wolf-PAC focuses on local politics. You know, the ones who actually listen to you.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#52895: Apr 10th 2013 at 10:55:18 AM

...good point, sir.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52896: Apr 10th 2013 at 11:04:25 AM

A constitutional convention is how you amend the constitution without Congress. You get that when two thirds of the states call for a resolution to the convention. Once an amendment is proposed, three quarters of the states can ratify it.

If that happens, Congress cannot do a thing, because a convention is local politics.

edited 10th Apr '13 11:10:37 AM by Sledgesaul

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#52897: Apr 10th 2013 at 11:11:53 AM

If a convention is convened, they need to focus on doing something to force congress to work more effectively, rather than jumping straight to the various left/right issues. Because that will just immediately descend into partisan bickering, and nothing will get done.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#52898: Apr 10th 2013 at 11:15:24 AM

Wolf-PAC is campaigning to reduce the power if money in politics. They're looking to remove corporate personhood as well as the idea that money equals speech. Citizens United and Bucklry v. Valeo are the two bills that mandated it. If that amendment is ratified, both of those bills - in fact, I think all bills that grant corporate personhood - would be gone.

edited 10th Apr '13 11:17:03 AM by Sledgesaul

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#52899: Apr 10th 2013 at 12:20:32 PM

I'm sorry, but while I certainly like the idea of a constitutional convention, I have no confidence in the ability of the American people to manage it sensibly. Not while our media is so busy selling a false equivalence between Republicans and Democrats and a third of the populace gets all its information from Fox News.

I'm going to have to side with the folks who think that our current woes will sort themselves out through simple demographics: as the "angry white male" loses population share, so will movement conservatism, until it dies out as a major influence.

Then we can have an actual liberal vs. conservative debate again, instead of the current conservative versus reactionary shouting match.

edited 10th Apr '13 12:22:35 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#52900: Apr 10th 2013 at 1:32:28 PM

So, miffed that some judges are having the AUDACITY to BLOCK these very important laws, WI GOP state legislators are trying to neuter their effectiveness.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

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