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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#52726: Apr 7th 2013 at 3:26:47 PM

[up]

1: she doesnt define how far ahead of time

2: its not a typewriter

3: if she honestly thinks her son is the onlycasualty of viokence against an embassy, she's an entitled moron.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#52727: Apr 7th 2013 at 3:26:56 PM

Thank you Maher and Sanders for asking that question. However, it's been asked before and I doubt we'll actually get an answer. With an entire party openly dedicated to making Obama look bad, he could be the second coming of Jesus and they'd still be against him.

Aaand, they're still on Benghazi. I have full sympathy for the mother that lost her son, but Benghazi has already been investigated and I think concluded to be something that simply went terribly wrong. And didn't have enough security because of budget cuts. There is no conspiracy here, just a tragedy that no one could have fully predicted.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#52728: Apr 7th 2013 at 4:35:19 PM

Okay I know a lot of libertarians aren't the most knowledgeable about politics but could someone explain this logic. I'll go point by point.

1. Christianity is freedom? How? You're forced to serve a higher power. Sure It's benevolent but it sounds closer to slavery than freedom.

2. The Tea Party and Ron Paul are not the same thing? Huh?

3. Fascism is not the same thing as Nazism and both are less radical than socialism?

4. What the hell is anarchism doing on the slavery side? That's the opposite of what it is.

5. Everything that's not Christianity or Ron Paul is left wing, even the Tea Party and Republicans? The fuck?

Did the person just pick random words that supposedly signify bad things and arrange them in an arbitrary order?

edited 7th Apr '13 4:38:12 PM by Kostya

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#52729: Apr 7th 2013 at 4:44:23 PM

Politicus USA is a pretty crappy source even as far as heavily biased glorified blogs go — like, they're up there with Fox pundits. While the Boehner article wouldn't surprise me, it was completely unsourced, and the one about the birther seemed more concerned with inflammatory sarcasm than presenting reliable info.

Oh, yes. The Roman Catholic Church ordered Obama to be President and hid his real birth certificate from American voters. You can tell by the way they pushed Mitt Romney in 2012. What a ruse!

Local bishops are always eager to throw in their cents (generally lining up with their local demographic), but the RCC itself didn't endorse Romney, or anyone. The only official statements were blanket condemnations of the usual issues that were hostile to both sides of the fence (abortion, contraception, economic injustice), and to lambast Paul Ryan in particular for trying to use his Catholicism as a stamp for his own nightmarishly regressive policy.

edited 7th Apr '13 4:49:40 PM by Pykrete

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#52730: Apr 7th 2013 at 5:57:49 PM

2. The Tea Party and Ron Paul are not the same thing? Huh?

The Tea Party is a very radical Conservative group.

Ron Paul is a blend of radial Libertarianism and Constitutionalism

Ron Paul is way to isolationist and honest about America's past mistakes for the Tea Party's tastes. Plus he's against Drug Prohibition.

EDIT: I can't help but feel my knowing of this is due to me spending way to much time on Free Republic.

3. Fascism is not the same thing as Nazism and both are less radical than socialism?

There are indeed differences between Mussolini & Franco's Fascism and Hitler's Nazism.

Nazism combines Fascism with Socialism (in the same way Scandinavian nations combine Capitalism and Socialism), and dials the Social Conservatism up to a point where Il Duce wouldn't even dare.

Of course, by this logic Nazism should be considered more radical than Fascism and Socialism.

EDIT: I also spend way to much time on Stormfront.

I'm at a lost on all the other questions.

edited 7th Apr '13 6:20:39 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52731: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:27:01 PM

@Heap: You think that is gonna happen? I'd rather not have those radicals taken seriously, (or pandered too) by the next republican candidate. If we gonna have a republican in the house next term I'd hope it'd be someone who doesn't see any social changes over the next four years as "damage".

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#52732: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:31:53 PM

[up][up]Of course most of the Socialism in the Nazi party got purged during the Night of Long Knives... replaced by corporatism. But anyone who replaces either fascism or Nazism to the left of socialism (or anywhere besides the right wing) is either delusional or a liar.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#52733: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:38:51 PM

Nazism as I understand it is Centre-Right Authoritarian.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#52734: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:40:22 PM

Kostya, the person that made that graph clearly doesn't understand what authoritarianism is, nor are they likely to care if they're comparing nazism and anarchism as being similar political philosophies.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#52735: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:43:41 PM

[up][up]Actually its Far-Right totalitarianism (ideologically driven government with a charismatic leader that concentrates power), calling it Centre-Right is a massive disservice to all the moderate modern conservatives/parties out there who fit in that position on the spectrum.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#52736: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:56:09 PM

To quote Wikipedia.

He [Hitler] proclaimed in one of his speeches that "we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system",[22] but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that "Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."

Nazi Economics are hard to identify because the Nazis never had a clearly defined economic programme.

This is largely because Hitler didn't give a shit about economics.

In 1922, Hitler proclaimed that "world history teaches us that no people has become great through its economy but that a people can very well perish thereby", and later concluded that "the economy is something of secondary importance".

And in all honesty, the singe-line left–right political spectrum is a horrible way to categorize ideologies.

edited 7th Apr '13 6:59:22 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#52737: Apr 7th 2013 at 6:59:32 PM

It really is. That's why I prefer the political compass. It has two axes which makes it easier to draw the distinction between the likes of Jill Stein, Hitler, and Stalin.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#52738: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:04:01 PM

Exactly why I said the Nazi's were Centre-Right Authoritarian,...the economics were definitely to the left what with the social programmes and all. But socially they were definitely to the right,but where the obvious extreme is the down wing which is authoritarian.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#52739: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:05:24 PM

Bill Clinton: Voters will have ‘some very good choices for president'

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#52740: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:11:01 PM

... Hillary will totes run for president.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#52741: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:19:30 PM

Actually its Far-Right totalitarianism (ideologically driven government with a charismatic leader that concentrates power), calling it Centre-Right is a massive disservice to all the moderate modern conservatives/parties out there who fit in that position on the spectrum.

On a Political Compass style scale where left-right is of purely economic issues (and hard-assedness of authority is on a separate axis), the Nazis were pretty much all over the center area. They had a lot of leftist social programs and nationalized a ton of businesses, but didn't really support the schema all that well as things dragged on and were probably just right of center by the end. At the very least, yes, they did live up to the socialism title in essence, and no, it didn't really have that much to do with why they were batshit insane on the whole.

edited 7th Apr '13 7:29:25 PM by Pykrete

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#52742: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:20:49 PM

Totalitarianism can't be far-right because right implies market activity and deregulation. It's more like rock bottom of the "axis".

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#52743: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:23:17 PM

It's actually top, but yes. Rock bottom is anarchism.

edited 7th Apr '13 7:23:55 PM by Pykrete

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#52744: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:23:42 PM

Putting policies on an oversimplified axis is just a way to package up policies for people who don't want to go to the effort of actually studying the consequences of adopting those policies.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#52745: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:24:01 PM

[up][up]Well, I prefer the Nolan Chart, but you can see why I call it rock bottom. Nobody here would want it.

edited 7th Apr '13 7:25:05 PM by Trivialis

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#52746: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:25:02 PM

Anarchy is the top

Authoritarian is the bottom,Libertarian/Anarchy is the top,Conservatism is the Right,Socialism and Liberalism are the left as I understand it.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#52747: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:25:28 PM

YOU CAN TAKE YOUR NOLAN RHOMBUS AND...rotate it 45 degrees, I dunno. The idea is the same, so whatevs.

edited 7th Apr '13 7:26:27 PM by Pykrete

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#52748: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:28:19 PM

@ deathpigeon

That's the message I got from that as well.

Bill is being as subtle as a punch to the face.

Biden holds off on salary cut for now

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#52749: Apr 7th 2013 at 7:38:43 PM

So wait, exactly how many are planning on doing this salary cut to themselves, or have indicated that they will?

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#52750: Apr 7th 2013 at 8:33:28 PM

Both a compass and a spectrum are inadequate ways to categorize all the different economic ideologies. Frankly, the only definitive way to do it is to actually take the time to research the positions you're talking about yourself.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

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