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TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52401: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:13:18 PM

I have long said I vehemently oppose tax loopholes and tax shelters. In Starshipland, your citizenship would be revoked for trying to hide your money from the government.

Fucking disgusting, parasitic, cowardly, traitorous, thieves. All of them.

It was an honor
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#52402: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:14:31 PM

here's my answer as to why. Because you didn't earn that money on your own, you earned it with the help of a society that has to be paid for. Because as someone who can easily afford to contribute you should, not because you can afford it, but because your shoulders are broader then those with less and it is thus right that you carry more weight. Because the strong should carry the weak, because that is there moral duty as a repayment for a society that was a big part in them making that money.

You benefited more from society then the poor guy, so you should pay more.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#52403: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:15:34 PM

The government should be asking how much does it need to make sure we ensure a comfortable and high standard of living for all. Then take that amount in taxes, taking more from the rich.

How is that any different that what we're saying?

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52404: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:17:36 PM

Again, I have NO issue with paying more. It is the privilege of the wealthy to pass that on so that the next girl/guy can make it. That's the duty of every Christian, every American, every human being.

But.......I am also entitled to enjoy my money. If I earn more, it's not for the government to suddenly decide it needs more. Tax me in proportion to what I make, don't raise taxes for no other reason than I made a lot of money. That's not fair.

It was an honor
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52405: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:17:41 PM

I get the whole principle of the thing, but I don't get why the principle is bad. You make more you pay more so less people die hungry.

[up]It isn't fair to the poorer people. Essentially Once I can afford the batmobile I really don't care.

edited 4th Apr '13 1:19:22 PM by Wildcard

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#52406: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:18:59 PM

Star I'm confused as whether you want a flat tax or a progressive tax.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
IConfuseMe from Washington, DC Since: Jan, 2010
#52407: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:19:20 PM

I look at it this way.

Society is a bit like a really really big caravan. And expenses are a bit like the many many things a large caravan would have to carry with them to survive.

Now not every one in this caravan is of equal strength. Some have better made wagons or stronger horses. Some have back problems or are old or are too young. Some might have a head cold and, if we give them a moment's respite, will gladly contribute more than their share tomorrow.

Now the caravan can either split up the weight equally and loose resources and people as they struggle and fail to carry their fair load. Or they stronger ones, with the better wagons and horses can pick the slack so that the whole procession proceeds just a little bit smoother.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52408: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:19:38 PM

You guys want to keep penalize high earners. I say, "How 'bout this? Don't tax the poor at all. Progressively tax the kinda/sorts wealthy. And then set a high, but FLAT, rate on the really rich.

That way, I get to enjoy my profits, you get the money you need so that the next troper can write The Next Big Story and get rich, and everyone's happy.

edited 4th Apr '13 1:22:24 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52409: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:20:24 PM

That's getting awfully close to "Taxation is theft."

If you don't want taxes, go live somewhere else. I hear Somali is nice.

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52410: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:20:27 PM

[up][up]And if it isn't enough?

[up]That's a little hostile don't ya think.

edited 4th Apr '13 1:20:51 PM by Wildcard

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#52411: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:20:46 PM

So you want a tax system that's even more progressive then the one we currently have?

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52412: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:21:30 PM

Do you have an objecting at a max tax of 60%?

I don't think anyone sane is going to push for anything more than that. Most likely less.

[up][up] That's the "generalized" you. Not a specific you.

edited 4th Apr '13 1:22:23 PM by DrTentacles

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52413: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:22:31 PM

Star I'm confused as whether you want a flat tax or a progressive tax.

I want....both, I guess. I want no taxes on those making less than $40,000. I want a progressive tax between $200,000 and $4 million. And then I want a 36.8% flat tax on everything $5.6 million and above.

EDIT: And if you try to hide your money, we seize your accounts and you lose your citizenship.

edited 4th Apr '13 1:26:10 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#52414: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:24:01 PM

But you got more help, so you should pay a higher percentage. No one is saying you can't enjoy your money, but if you look at what the richest do with their money, they aren't enjoying it. They are putting it in vaults and not touching it. Likewise we do need more, if the government ever reaches a point where it doesn't need extra money we can talk about cutting taxes, but we are nowhere near that point.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52415: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:25:39 PM

But you got more help, so you should pay a higher percentage.

I don't buy that. That sounds like Huffington Post talk. Greater success does not automatically equal greater help. It could just as easily mean I simply used the available means at my disposable better than someone else did.

It was an honor
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#52416: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:26:01 PM

Can someone who knows the nitty gritty of economics explain why that tax plan wouldn't work? (I know for a fact that the TLDR version is "not enough funding")

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#52417: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:26:30 PM

Yeah, sadly Starship setting the top tax rate that low is regressive even if it is better than it is now. Do you know what the average middle class family gets taxed now? It's more than 33%. About 60% on the very wealthy seems to be the sweet spot for encouraging the economy on all levels. The very wealthy enjoy the fruits of their wealth, and there's enough funds for everyone to have a social safety net letting the poor climb out of poverty.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52418: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:26:56 PM

Assuming you mean the Starship Progressive Taxation System, it's because I'm an evil right-winger, and we all know all they're ideas suck. [lol]

[up] I swear nobody reads my posts. The near 40% flat rate is on those making over $5.6 million. Your hypothetical family wouldn't be taxed that. If the household income came out to less than $40,000 per person, they'd pay nothing in my system.

edited 4th Apr '13 1:29:16 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#52419: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:27:40 PM

As an aside note, progressive tax systems by their nature do flatten out after a certain point. It doesn't increase forever, you know. So a "progressive tax, with a flat tax at such-and-such income" is just a progressive tax.

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#52420: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:28:11 PM

There's a difference between evil and not knowing a thing about economics. If the latter was evil I'd be evil.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52421: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:28:15 PM

I don't care how I came about it, if the government needs my money for taxes to help everyone than I should give them what I can reasonably be asked. Where we differ is what "reasonably" is.

If I don't like what my government is doing than I can change it with my votes and what I choose to spend money on.

RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#52422: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:28:19 PM

Why the cut-off at $4 million? Is money made past that amount somehow more "deserved" than income below it?

edited 4th Apr '13 1:29:49 PM by RTaco

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#52423: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:28:43 PM

@Starship: Bah, most of you all are right-wingers, just some are more in the center than others.

edited 4th Apr '13 1:28:57 PM by deathpigeon

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52424: Apr 4th 2013 at 1:31:26 PM

Why the cut-off at $4 million?

Well, on the one hand, I don't rich people being denied higher returns simply because their rich. But I also don't want someone making less to have to foot the bill when the $10 million earner can shoulder it more eaasily.

It was an honor

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