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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52301: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:04:18 AM

I knew there was a reason I hated taking math in school.sad

So is this survey just gonna alienate people further?

edited 4th Apr '13 9:05:05 AM by Wildcard

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#52302: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:14:45 AM

Also the state with the strictest gun laws in the country (I might be wrong but I think is New York) also has a good chunk of it's population living in one of the largest cities in the country. Think Starship the effect gun laws must be if we have NYC and we've still got a relatively low rate of gun violence.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52303: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:17:03 AM

[up] Sadly, that's something that's difficult to prove (also New-York was a hellhole until the 90s, and I think Starship is a NYC native). SO unless we have a similar city (And no two cities are exactly the same) with more or less lax gun-laws, it's hard to isolate gun laws as a factor in violence.

Personally, I think they reduce gun violence, but it's damningly hard to test. Especially with people unwilling to try.

edited 4th Apr '13 9:17:20 AM by DrTentacles

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52304: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:29:45 AM

Look this isn't hard, we know that in depressed areas, including depressed rural areas violence is up, and gun violence will correlate with that rise. There's literally a hundred studies that show this.

So when I see "gun laws! Need more laws!" I see a way to cop out from actually addressing income disparity, education disparity, and social services disparities that actually lead to gun violence.

It was an honor
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#52305: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:33:24 AM

You mean things that are all on the Democrats platform?

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52306: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:33:45 AM

Those things are gonna take a long time to solve, what do we do in the meantime?

[up]I'd like to solve those things.

edited 4th Apr '13 9:34:33 AM by Wildcard

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52307: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:36:52 AM

On their platform? Perhaps. Doing anything about it? Debatable.

It was an honor
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52308: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:39:40 AM

Starship, it's called a stimulus package, and "Obamacare." They've been blocked or attempted to have been blocked. Repeatedly. Then we've got the idiotic austerity hike.

I'll try to find more examples when I'm not in a lecture.

edited 4th Apr '13 9:40:41 AM by DrTentacles

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#52309: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:43:53 AM

On their platform? Perhaps. Doing anything about it? Debatable.
Mostly because the Republicans in Congress keep filibustering/blocking any improvements to social services, tax reforms (the main income equalizer) or better funding/reforms of schools that Democrats want. Or want to pull funding from social services/schools because it ain't the government's business to help, according to current party doctrine.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52310: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:48:24 AM

It's becoming a bit tired that the excuse for every failed Democrat bid is "Well the Republicans......" (Granted, it's as lame as Democrat treachery being the cause of every Republican failing).

Obama decided to fix healthcare by introducing his forced heathcare bill, which I can see the logic in, partially. He did nothing to address the fact that the healthcare companies have an oligopoly and have set their own unchallenged skyrocketed costs.

Cutting social services is pretty fucking stupid, but that does nothing to address the fact that the government really does waste money on many dubious endeavors.

Stop always blaming the other guys and start actually addressing those things. (Ty the way, that's directed at both parties)

edited 4th Apr '13 9:54:01 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#52311: Apr 4th 2013 at 9:58:35 AM

[up][up] But they're going to block gun control reform to. If they're going to block everything then we might as well make it so they are blocking the more important things. Unless this is a bluff, get the GOP so focused on guns control that you can slip in some other reforms under the radar.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52312: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:03:06 AM

Alright, Starship. Let's hear your grand idea. I've been frustrated by this for the past five years.

The Republicans have been blocking everything. Everything. Name on piece of reform that actually helps that has a snowball's chance of hell of getting in.

Obama's appointments are filibustered. They do the stupid "Now we're in session, now we're not thing" to keep him from appointing people, then when he does something, ret-con those appointments out of existence. The Obamacare we got was a compromise, forced by the republicans, and the original version would fixed those problems you described. Obamacare is a more right-wing version of an idea that was originally a GOP thing, proposed as an alternative to Clinton's plan that would has done exactly what you just said you want.

They tried to repeal Obamacare 39 times.

There is nothing the republicans will not do to sabotage Obama, and the democrats. This isn't hyperbole. This is simple fact. They have proven willing to quite literally risk another recession, and destroy countless jobs for the sake of their own ambition.

If you have a solution, I'm all ears.

edited 4th Apr '13 10:10:57 AM by DrTentacles

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#52313: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:05:01 AM

Obama decided to fix healthcare by introducing his forced heathcare bill, which I can see the logic in, partially. He did nothing to address the fact that the healthcare companies have an oligopoly and have set their own unchallenged skyrocketed costs.
Which requires universal healthcare generally. :V Problem is when the Democrats had the majority, they also had to appeal to the Blue Dogs. Obamacare was as good as it was going to get with Democratic reps with more rurally-aligned voters who don't like the idea of Government intrusion.

Obamacare is meant to push towards more socialized medicene. Unfortunately with the sheer scale of the law, some of it's more key effects only start kicking in next year:

- Insurance Marketplaces backed by the government to start getting more people on healthcare (which is a major way to help drive down costs.) - The Mandate fee/tax/whatever the Supreme Court ruled it as, where you have to pay for not having insurance for whatever reasons you have. - Medicaid expansions - Tax Credits - Elimination of annual limits on coverage. - The end of the generally loathed "No coverage because of pre-existing condition" policies most insurance companies have.

Cutting social services is pretty fucking stupid, but that does nothing to address the fact that the government really does waste money on many dubious endeavors.
Except Obamacare is filled with sections designed to set up investigations in how to AXE the wasteful spending on at least health services. Fighteer's gone on about this before, a national government is the one group that can basically bargain costs on their terms, not the companies.

:x A lot of the healthcare law needs /time/ for its effects to kick in.

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52314: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:08:02 AM

You want wasteful spending?

Read this

http://gunpowderandlead.org/2013/04/snafu/

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#52315: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:09:02 AM

And to back up Tentacles' point, I'd like to link to this again: http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/clotureCounts.htm

This is part of the problem, that people have trouble seriously grasping how much obstructionism has risen over time, how compromise has become less and less viable. This is not business as usual in Washington.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
LastHussar The time is now, from the place is here. Since: Jul, 2009
The time is now,
#52316: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:16:48 AM

I was amused by the Tea Partiers protesting in their Medicaid supplied buggies with placards saying "Keep Government out of Medicaid"

Do the job in front of you.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52317: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:19:35 AM

My solution was to nuke D.C. and install my own cadre of sensible policymakers gleaned from OTC.

People didn't seem thrilled with that idea.

It was an honor
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#52318: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:21:45 AM

...Got any usable ideas?

If not, I'm going to have to stick with the Democrats and their policies. Since most of them aren't outright terrible in every way.

Shadow?
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52319: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:22:36 AM

For some reason they think getting a political science or law school degree you would be a good at solving issues of the country. We've clearly seen that is not the case.tongue

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52320: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:25:36 AM

Don't worry. It'll all be over when my tentacled minions march upon your Hu-Man leaders.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#52321: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:36:10 AM

A universal healthcare program, the treatment of drug addiction across the board as a medical rather than criminal problem (we don't charge you for being sick, we treat you), and the federal legalization of marijuana would drop urban shooting rates like a rock. The drug trade would die in a year.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52322: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:39:53 AM

A friend of mine watched a documentary that somewhere they had a "get the people off the drugs by giving them some and lessening the dosage over time" do any of are drug programs do that?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#52323: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:41:35 AM

I am pretty sure heroin addiction is mostly fixed that way, also using similar drugs.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52324: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:42:19 AM

A universal healthcare program, the treatment of drug addiction across the board as a medical rather than criminal problem (we don't charge you for being sick, we treat you), and the federal legalization of marijuana would drop urban shooting rates like a rock. The drug trade would die in a year.

When I see either party follow this common sense approach and not instead go with the current system which locks up black and brown people and makes money for the State, then we can talk.

It was an honor
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#52325: Apr 4th 2013 at 10:42:44 AM

[up]X8 Wait, we're not going ahead with that plan? Now what am I meant to do with all this nuclear material?

edited 4th Apr '13 10:43:51 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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