TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52226: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:21:41 PM

[up] I just wish it didn't take massive tragedies to jar people into action. Sandy Hook was a blip. It was nothing compared to the yearly, or really even monthly gun death toll. Yet it takes something like that to happen-something, in fact, that's going to be incredibly hard to prevent from happening it again, since it was such a rare and isolated incident to get any sort of attention.

Furthermore, if legislation does pass, and doesn't stop the next Sandy Hook, it's going to be called a failure even if it drastically reduced the most common kinds of gun violence. (The ones we have a greater chance of reducing, as well.)

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#52227: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:26:06 PM

There's a real lack of focus on the gun control side. Many if not most of the proposed regulations will not be reducing gun violence. Magazine size, for instance? Useless. Won't stop any violence whatsoever. Won't increase it, either. It's just a distraction.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52228: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:27:45 PM

I can't really argue that. What we really need is an overhaul of-and more funding for the ATF.

edited 3rd Apr '13 3:28:05 PM by DrTentacles

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#52229: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:30:00 PM

I agree. I also feel like a more thorough background check system is a good idea. And that one seems like most people would agree with it on the federal level.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52230: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:33:33 PM

Those are the two biggies for me. The problem is, we've got the Republicans agitating their base into thinking that the democrats are going to take all of their guns (the fact that some democrats in office have tried to pass bills to do things like that doesn't help, even if they were all voted down quickly), and the NRA/Republicans shooting down all attempts to talk with "not one inch" rhetoric.

It doesn't help that much of American, and more of our politicians are criminally ignorant about guns, either relying on scare tactics, or what the NRA feeds them.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#52231: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:51:43 PM

They want to reduce magazine size because it would reduce the amount of harm a person could do. As it stands, a guy killed over twenty people inside of a few minutes because he didn't have to reload at all in that time. No one thinks it's a cure all solution, it's a method to reduce the amount of harm an individual can do.

And the bills that do have a chance of passing grandfathers in all the crap the people already own; it was in the link I posted several pages back. (I do mean several, and I can't find the link in my bookmarks. >_<) Which, well, grandfathering things in is fairly typical of the US law process. So no, no one is thinking we can really take the guns away, it's about reducing harm going forward.

Also, the Godwin rule is an extreme example of attempting to derail a conversation and prevent the actual topic from being discussed. Sandy Hook was recent and therefor incredibly relevant. Several other shootings are even more recent and relevant! If we don't take examples from real life we'd never have any laws at all. You've got shit like the NRA trying to stop people who've suffered from gun violence from voicing their opinions on the subject; are you going to accuse them of Godwinning something they actually had to live through? (A non Sandy Hook example being Gabby Giffords and her husband.)

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#52232: Apr 3rd 2013 at 6:54:09 PM

Federal judge who sent racist Obama email says he will retire

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#52233: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:07:58 PM

They want to reduce magazine size because it would reduce the amount of harm a person could do. As it stands, a guy killed over twenty people inside of a few minutes because he didn't have to reload at all in that time. No one thinks it's a cure all solution, it's a method to reduce the amount of harm an individual can do.

Except it wouldn't really.

This is how long it takes to reload a gun:

Smaller magazines would have slowed the guy down by a cumulative few seconds over the timeline of the entire shooting.

On another note, this lady seems to think magazines are somehow expended when used.

edited 3rd Apr '13 7:10:02 PM by Pykrete

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#52234: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:15:44 PM

This is how long it takes to reload a gun:

Only if your good at it.

edited 3rd Apr '13 7:16:15 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#52235: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:15:49 PM

Plus, banning high capacity mags does nothing to prevent the street and domestic incidents (you only need a few bullets to kill someone after all) that vastly outnumber the death toll from mass/spree killings.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52237: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:29:47 PM

Plus, banning high capacity mags does nothing to prevent the street and domestic incidents (you only need a few bullets to kill someone after all) that vastly outnumber the death toll from mass/spree killings.

This. Fucking this. Finally, somebody said it.

No one is trying to pretend the Republicans/Conservatives aren't on a mini-jihad, but people get annoyed that truth like this gets buried under a pile of Democrat/Liberal bandwagon rattling.

Ban assault weapons; install tracking on each bullet; limit purchases to one gun per 3-bedroom house; and one that really grates me 'look at how much safer and nicer do-no-wrong-ever Europe is'....just one bullshit suggestion after another and meanwhile, we ignore the fact that 90% of gun violence is either suicides or inner city urban violence.

But instead the walk-on-water President and the Democrats seize on the shock of a bunch of white children being blown away by a psycho and suddenly, it's America's gun culture that's to blame for the "rampant" violence. Yes, let's conveniently ignore that in states and areas where folks own three guns apiece and a rifle, the gun violence rate is nearly nil.

I mean geez, give the rhetoric a break for five minutes, and actually come up with some common sense laws, and perhaps we'll actually go along with them.

It was an honor
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#52238: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:41:09 PM

[up]You mean stuff like requiring background checks for all gun purchases? Or expanding the availability of mental health care? They're trying to do stuff like that too, but that's being blocked as well.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52239: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:43:45 PM

Yeah you can agree with that Ship. I just really, really don't want people buying assault rifles or sniper rifles without some training, decent mental health, and making sure the system isn't easy to exploit. Basically I don't care how "safe" it is because of the less gang fights in rural areas, I just don't want anybody to own an assault rifle who hasn't proven they are safe with it.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52240: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:46:29 PM

Well Native, in that manner they're much like the Republicans. They have 88% good ideas, but they screw it up with the 12% absolutely bananas ideas that they give all the speeches to because that's what makes headlines. And gets votes from the base.

[up] Well Card, of course, I agree with you. In fact, I think there should be a licensing process for guns just like their is for cars, and have a mental competency exam be part and parcel of it.

edited 3rd Apr '13 7:49:02 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#52241: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:49:15 PM

I also want to point out that it's worth trying to stop both spree shootings and conventional gun crime. Just because restrictions on things like assault rifles and extended magazines won't do much of anything against conventional gun violence doesn't mean that they're not worth doing for their effect on spree shootings.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52242: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:51:16 PM

How would we prevent gun suicides? That is a hard question that I haven't seen much of an answer for. But it is important.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#52243: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:52:04 PM

Small town of Nelson, Georgia passes law making it 'compulsory' to own a gun

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

edited 3rd Apr '13 7:52:12 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52244: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:55:56 PM

[up] We had that in the Gun thread, I think. There are exceptions for contentious objectors, the mentally ill, and so on. It's sound and fury, nothing more. It still shows the dangerously dogmatic, almost fanatic love of guns much of the republican party has.

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52245: Apr 3rd 2013 at 7:57:40 PM

So wait "were signing this into law but we can't legally enforce it."!?

edited 3rd Apr '13 7:57:53 PM by Wildcard

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#52246: Apr 3rd 2013 at 8:00:03 PM

Yeah, so like I said, there's plenty of stupid to go around on both sides, clearly.

Re gun suicides: While a valid question, I think it's misguided. We (and the Democrats who claim to be for the people) should be aiming to reduce suicide period. This means actually addressing things like when someone appears unhinged like the Newtown killer and the Colorado movie killer and the Columbine killers were.

It was an honor
OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#52247: Apr 3rd 2013 at 8:00:09 PM

Heard that on the radio the other day. Made a bit of a case as the issue was there was only one sherif's deputy for like half the county. Also made it clear that they weren't looking to enforce it to any great degree.

Probably worth mentioniing that I'm a native Atlanta so the context's not too hard for me to get.

Ninjad a bit.

edited 3rd Apr '13 8:01:41 PM by OhnoaBear

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#52248: Apr 3rd 2013 at 8:03:45 PM

@Starship: But we have to factor in the split second thing. Suicide is many times a quick decision that somebody will give up on if they don't have the tools, (we discussed this a week or two ago I believe). It's pretty obvious we can't and shouldn't make everybody get rid of guns but how can we remove the split second factor? Is their any middle ground way of solving this?

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#52249: Apr 3rd 2013 at 8:04:25 PM

[up][up][up] Starship, that's

We (and the Democrats who claim to be for the people) should be aiming to reduce suicide period.

just we. Don't try to deny it.

Anyhow, it has been shown that reduced availability of "Clean" suicide weapons to suicidal people does reduce suicide, since many suicides are "heat/fog of the moment" decisions. This would be best accomplished by psych evaluations and background checks, which would hopefully also have the side effect of getting people who need mental health help-help.

edited 3rd Apr '13 8:05:09 PM by DrTentacles

OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#52250: Apr 3rd 2013 at 8:06:30 PM

Make quick use of guns unreasonable? Make the only legal guns nearly impossible to use in suicide attempts (ie. only long bore rifles)?

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."

Total posts: 417,856
Top