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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@Tentacles - Doctor, I assure you the number of Republicans who want some faux-Walfen-SS troopers to round up countless millions of people, tag them, and dump them on the other side of the border (essentially spending a billion dollars to get rid of billions more, in the form of all the ways they contribute to the economy) can be counted on one hand.
But the problem is, to a quasi-conservative such as myself, it looks like liberals are simply saying "The rules are evil! Save the people!" and meanwhile at this very minute Mexicans are coming across illegally. And everytime someone wants to do something to stem the tide, and thus stymying the drain on social services, and putting a leash on border drug violence, another liberal starts screaming "XENOPHOBIA! RACISM! TEA PARTY!"
It gets frustrating.
It was an honorLast I heard, the US borders to Mexico are actually the tightest they've been in all of the country's history.
(Also supposedly the Assualt Weapon ban lapsing let Latin American cartel violence to jump?)
edited 2nd Apr '13 12:17:26 PM by PotatoesRock
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Not having them come across would not be good for our economy, as it stands. I'd rather have illegal immigration, and a functioning economy.
...Well...somewhat functioning? More functioning that it would be otherwise?...
Than not have them come across at all. And mass deportations has been brought up seriously by people in power.
Having completely open borders has never been brought up. The Republicans have stubbornly resisted immigration reform for a long time. Do I have to bring up sources? I can.
Ideally, we can fix immigration, so we don't have the make the above choice. However, even now (though less than it used to be), efforts by democratic congressmen are being blocked by republicans, while more laws like the one in Arizona are being proposed.
edited 2nd Apr '13 12:17:23 PM by DrTentacles
Followup:
Also, the myth that illegal immigrants drain social services is just that, a myth. Whites have the highest drain on things like Wellfare, especially whites in the deep south bible belt. Blacks (sorry) have the highest per-captita drain (Blame it on institutionalized racism, crab bucket mentality, and lack of genuine inner-city education reform). Most illegal immigrants pay taxes (payroll/income, and sales), yet receive nothing in return.
Starship my man, do you really want to challenge us to find 6 loonies who think this is a good idea? Because I'm sure we could.
Maybe change it to "...the number of Republicans elected to office who want..."?
More MSNBC facts. Whites make up the majority of the country and thus, yes, they are the biggest drain on social services. A steadying stream of people of unknown status and criminal background check is not good.
We're talking about people who may or may not even use a real name. And they don't pay payroll tax, their employers do, such as when they do pay them on the books.
Again, contrary to popular myth, nobody wants people who are contributing to society to get kicked out. But goddamn it, the rules are in place for everybody. It's not for people to ignore them when they feel like.
& ![]()
Let's not get carried away guys.
edited 2nd Apr '13 12:25:32 PM by TheStarshipMaxima
It was an honorTentacles got to it while I was in mid-post typing, but yeah, illegal immigrants as a whole are a financial benefit to society, not a drain.
And when 'conservatives' make arguments that are based on fiction rather than facts, it makes it pretty hard NOT to consider it racist or some other form of -ist, because what motive, otherwise, do you have for making these things up?
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.This is as blatant a lie if ever there was one...
No "wealthy entrepreneur" has ever been prevented from immigrating to the US unless they have what the US would consider a felony. And even then, that is only an issue if they aren't "wealthy" enough.
It's the "middle-class" people wanting to immigrate that get screwed...
Whatever happened to "An unjust law is no law at all?"
The majority of immigrants are not criminals. Not even a plurality. If they do turn to crime, it's because lack of legal documentation keeps them from legal forms of work.
And I addressed whites being a majority in the second part of the post.
We're basically arguing the same thing here. You're just assuming most liberals believe differently than you, and that conservatives believe the same, while that isn't the case, and hasn't been since the 70s at least.
edited 2nd Apr '13 12:30:35 PM by DrTentacles
Re-posting, since I edited it in.
We're basically arguing the same thing here. You're just assuming most liberals believe differently than you in this, and that conservatives believe the same, while that isn't the case, and hasn't been since the 70s at least.
Unenforced borders would be a nightmare. What we need (and the majority of democrats, at least the ones in power believe the same) are borders that are loose enough that no one feels the needs to get around illegally (or at least that the majority of people do) and tight enough that we have a good idea of who's going where, and for what reason, and we can stop the "bad apples" as you put them.
I really think we should have some sort of "Working VISA" that easy to obtain. Not full citizenship, but make it easy for people to come over, work a job, and slowly earn their way to pull citizenship.
edited 2nd Apr '13 12:35:47 PM by DrTentacles
Starship, no one (except DP, who is crazy
) is calling for unforced borders. So I don't know who you're arguing with.
You think this is bad, one time I was discussing the benefits of socialism then 20 second later I was calling for a fascist takeover of the United States.
edited 2nd Apr '13 12:35:44 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranWe were arguing for unenforced borders? I'm just arguing for immigration reform.
I was only saying I could see D Ps point of view cause I think it would be nice to live in a totally different society, but I can't honestly support it until I can figure out how it would work.
edited 2nd Apr '13 12:36:52 PM by Wildcard
There was the time I went from "Reasonably Priced Healthcare for all" to "SUFFER NOT THE WEAK, THE OLD, OR THE INFIRM TO LIVE!"
EDIT: Yeah. You're still a secret liberal at heart, Starship, though Republican party has been getting more reasonable about immigration of late, if for cynical reasons. (But I'll take sane self-interest over stupid any day.)
edited 2nd Apr '13 12:41:18 PM by DrTentacles
HE CONFESSED!!! BURN THE WITCH!
I knew we'd get you to admit it one day.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

That may be deathpigeon's goal, but it isn't mine, nor (thankfully, in opinion) is it one shared by anyone in power.