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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51926: Mar 27th 2013 at 10:15:56 AM

@Maxima: I have no problem with pro-lifers. I have problems when pro-lifers imply my support of pro-choice implies I want to personally murder children while giggling evilly.

:P

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#51927: Mar 27th 2013 at 10:24:39 AM

@Max: Maybe they'll still talk if you mention you like Star Trek it might be enough. As long as you like the Abrams movie.

Anyone here see this yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/cussywk

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#51928: Mar 27th 2013 at 10:24:57 AM

pro-enforced borders

Is anyone anti-enforced borders? I think most people agree that border rules should be enforced. We just also think it might be an idea to deal with the things that make people want to try and cross the border, along with dealing with the ones who have already crossed.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51929: Mar 27th 2013 at 10:27:24 AM

[up]

This.

Even as a latino who's father came from Mexico city, I would rather reform immigration so that it isnt goddamned near impossible to immigrate.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#51930: Mar 27th 2013 at 10:46:48 AM

[up] & [up][up] I got no argument to that one.

Seems Shima's right, I probably agree with you guys anyway on 94.2% of the issues.

EDIT: Oh, look at that. For all this "Oh Noes! Da gunz are gonna killz us all!", gun violence is actually down.

Totally didn't see that coming.

edited 27th Mar '13 10:56:27 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51931: Mar 27th 2013 at 11:15:16 AM

Violent crime overall has been trending down, Starship. For gun violence to be singled out, you have to show that it's down relative to other forms of violent crime. We're still tops in the developed world, so a slight decline is not necessarily something to brag about. It's like your city dropping from first place to second place in number of rapes.

"Rapesville, USA. We're no longer first in rapes!" I'm not sure that sells itself very well as a slogan.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#51932: Mar 27th 2013 at 11:19:49 AM

Damn it 'Teer! Stop doing that.

It was an honor
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51933: Mar 27th 2013 at 11:25:20 AM

"Our infant mortality is now better than Zimbabwe's*! So come here to have your babies! Sorry, no nationalized healthcare; it's all out of pocket."

Reality hurts sometimes.

* For the U.S., we're #34 as of the latest WHO 5-year average, just behind Cuba. According to the CIA's 2012 data, we're beating Croatia but behind Guam, Hungary, and Greece.

edited 27th Mar '13 11:29:18 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#51934: Mar 27th 2013 at 11:27:34 AM

@The Starship Maxima: While I do agree that the movement for control is too hostile I can kind of understand it. You can have guns to protect your house, but it is easy to get me over at my house. Obviously the vast majority of gun owners are stable people who won't try to fire when they get mad at others, but guns are a made for this and can be stolen. Also while one can kill or injure with many number of things guns are quite easy to kill with even, (or especially) if your using them poorly. Also banning things like that can prevent suicide so maybe we should take that into account seriously.

I wouldn't constantly fear for my life if I lived next to a collector. But I could understand the reaction. I'm not calling for a ban (I don't really know enough about this issue honestly) but if guns are in the hands of anyone we have to protect ourselves. Especially if their widely available.

edited 27th Mar '13 12:00:52 PM by Wildcard

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#51935: Mar 27th 2013 at 11:27:59 AM

@Maxima: If you need something to argue about, I like the suggestion from the Libertarians that we should get rid of marriage as a legal concept. So there. grin

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#51936: Mar 27th 2013 at 12:14:14 PM

Is anyone anti-enforced borders?

Hi! I am anti-enforced borders! I think people should have the right to cross borders whenever they feel like it and immigrate places without restrictions!

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51937: Mar 27th 2013 at 12:42:43 PM

I'm not sure we want this to be an "express your personal political philosophy" thread, but for the record I support strong borders and legal immigration, mainly out of respect for the rule of law. But we need to fix our immigration policies and strengthen Mexico as a country so we don't have so many people trying to sneak across in the first place.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#51938: Mar 27th 2013 at 12:49:18 PM

I think at the least the countries should know who is visiting and to prevent criminals from entering. Dangerous criminals, to be specific.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51939: Mar 27th 2013 at 12:49:44 PM

[up][up]

This. I know at least a few of my extended family in the US are likely here illegally. (my father has a green card, and immigrated legally decades ago before it became such a mess)

The thing is..most of them are decent, hardworking folk who will take the time out of their day to do hard work like retiling your roof for you simply because you're family and have to be convinced to take money for taking time out of their lives to do so, or giving us rides somewhere when our own car breaks down, and who live as one arge family unit. (hell, a few of them are even looking into getting their citizenship simply because their daughter, who was born here and is a US Citizen, wants to join the Army and that would be far easier for her if the family's immigration status wasnt dicey)

And yet..theyre the exact kind of people immigration doesnt favor.

Theyre not rich. They cant offer fancy degrees or large businesses or anything else republicans want you to sweeten the pot with to be let in. And theres no economic opportunities back home for them. of course theyre going to risk a border run to come here if its the difference between feeding their family and not.

edited 27th Mar '13 12:49:54 PM by Midgetsnowman

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51940: Mar 27th 2013 at 12:52:51 PM

I think that our border policy would best be served by letting people come across legally as "economic refugees", with the potential to earn "legal immigrant" status once meeting certain criteria. Obviously you still want to control criminal trafficking in drugs, weapons, and people, but someone who is trying to get into the U.S. out of a desire to feed his family should be allowed to as long as he meets minimum standards of entry, like not having a criminal background.

edited 27th Mar '13 12:53:25 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51941: Mar 27th 2013 at 12:56:20 PM

[up]

it'd also cut down on companies using undocumented workers as cheap labor that they can practically abuse because they can threaten to turn them in to Immigration if they dare speak up against exploitative company policy.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51942: Mar 27th 2013 at 12:58:20 PM

Ayup. That is a big issue and a point of resistance from said companies to such a policy. There are parts of our society that benefit economically from undocumented workers; to them the status quo is just peachy.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#51943: Mar 27th 2013 at 12:58:40 PM

Also banning things like that can prevent suicide so maybe we should take that into account seriously.

I never understood this mentality. Does anyone honestly believe that sucidal people are going to stop killing themselves because they don't have guns? Because rope or knives are so hard to find.

To prove my point, Switzerland has the highest number of guns per capita in all of Europe, and holds the European record for rate of gun suicide.

BUT there overall suicide rate is lower than Russia, Austria, France, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Lativa, Hungary, Poland, Ireland, Iceland, Portugal, the UK, Romania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Serbia, Croatia, Lithuania, Greenland, Belgium, the Czech Republic, and Molodva.

All of which have less guns per capita than Switzerland.

edited 27th Mar '13 12:58:56 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51944: Mar 27th 2013 at 1:01:03 PM

I'm not sure that we need to be talking about suicide as part of a hypothetical gun control policy. A person wishing to kill themselves has a wide variety of tools available, and I doubt that one would find any statistical correlation between the availability of guns and the overall suicide rate.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51945: Mar 27th 2013 at 1:01:27 PM

[up][up]

Actually..its not that ropes are harder to find than guns..its that blowing your brains out with a shotgun is helluva faster a death than a knife or rope suicide. theres more chance of someone intervening.

This is also why women succeed less often at suicide than men. Men are far more likely to pick something with the finality of a gun. Women more likely to overdose or strangle themselves.

edited 27th Mar '13 1:02:10 PM by Midgetsnowman

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#51946: Mar 27th 2013 at 1:02:01 PM

[up][up][up]It worked for ovens. They banned a certain type of oven in England that was used as the preferred form of suicide and the suicide rate when down a lot. By one third in fact.

@Fighteer: Read that bit of the cracked article above about suicide cases.

edited 27th Mar '13 1:03:18 PM by Wildcard

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51947: Mar 27th 2013 at 1:03:58 PM

Look, I'm happy to improve gun control as part of a plan to reduce homicides; if suicides fall as a side effect, that's great, but it's not the primary objective.

Edit: Can't read Cracked at work.

edited 27th Mar '13 1:04:37 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#51948: Mar 27th 2013 at 1:05:15 PM

I'd rather not have a ban, but I think we should reduce them in some cases. Might prevent that.

[up]Okay. The gist of it is suicide is actually often a split second decision which also explains this.

Because rope or knives are so hard to find.

No they aren't hard to find. There just harder to work with in some ways. Suicides are a split second decision often which if the person does not have the means to accomplish quickly may make him or her reconsider. Knives could be quite easy to kill with but it isn't exactly a preferred way of quick suicide.

edited 27th Mar '13 1:10:30 PM by Wildcard

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#51949: Mar 27th 2013 at 1:20:51 PM

[up][up][up]What? People use ovens to kill themselves? I think if I were to kill myself, I'd find a less painful way then baking myself.

[down]Oh, that's what it meant.

edited 27th Mar '13 1:22:16 PM by nightwyrm_zero

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51950: Mar 27th 2013 at 1:21:34 PM

Ovens used to be gas based, so you could turn your oven on to suffocate yourself. Electric ovens aren't used the same way.


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