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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#51751: Mar 23rd 2013 at 3:38:02 PM

@Wildcard: Essentially, Romney was visibly saying one thing during the primary and another during the general election, thus allowing Obama to paint him as the Etch-A-Sketch candidate.

It wasn't just changing his position, it was deliberately tailoring his viewpoint to the audience.

edited 23rd Mar '13 3:38:27 PM by Ramidel

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#51752: Mar 23rd 2013 at 3:41:11 PM

Ah gotcha that is very bad. I was talking in general though.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#51753: Mar 23rd 2013 at 3:51:48 PM

Well, most of us don't blast a politician for flip-flopping, we blast a politician for being a flip-flopper. If a politician has no convictions that weren't fed to him by opinion polls and focus groups, then he'll make a very weak leader.

If someone or a group of someones is hammering on someone just for changing their opinion, then either they don't think the new opinion is sincerely held, they're bitching because the pol in question is changing away from the One True Faith, or they're against that politician anyway and trying to paint this particular sea change as a sign of general inconstancy.

Oddly enough, Supreme Court Justices are often more respected for flip-flops. Wonder why that is?

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#51754: Mar 23rd 2013 at 4:22:33 PM

Romney changed his position from week to week and audience to audience. It was pretty ridiculous.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51755: Mar 23rd 2013 at 5:16:28 PM

More to the point, Romney was blatant about it, like he didn't even care that he had different positions each week.

Krugman has an interesting blog post today where he notes how the right likes to attack any successful person who dares to suggest that he owes something to society.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#51756: Mar 23rd 2013 at 5:19:49 PM

To be fair Obama did that in 2008 before he beat the vastly more consistent Hillary Clinton and John Edwards.

And Kerry did the exact same thing in 2004.

But Romney was worse than both of them about it. At least Kerry and Obama still kept to one side of the aisle so you could figure out whether to or not stand against them.

Romney went from Centre-left (1994 Senate) to Centre (2002) to Centre-Left (Most dealings as Governor),to Center,to Hard Right (2008),to friggin' Regressive (2012) and then attempted some odd position for the debates.

This is why I'm curious to see what he's gonna say for Commencement at Graduation

edited 23rd Mar '13 5:20:32 PM by terlwyth

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51757: Mar 23rd 2013 at 5:22:40 PM

All politicians adapt to their audience; it's part of the job description. They also evolve over time just like anyone else. I'm not sure I'd want a President who is so inflexible that he never changes his opinions about anything, ever.

edited 23rd Mar '13 5:23:25 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#51758: Mar 23rd 2013 at 5:24:26 PM

Exactly,but that's kinda gotta be balanced with at least trying to keep one position for a little bit and generally staying a little consistent.

[down] Well said

edited 23rd Mar '13 6:18:36 PM by terlwyth

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#51759: Mar 23rd 2013 at 6:11:32 PM

A man who adopts multiple positions in a week and even multiple positions at the same time is not flexible. He is not capable of adapting to a better position because he's not capable of holding positions at all. They are not positions to such an official; they are merely the magic words he uses to try and conjure an election victory into being.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#51761: Mar 23rd 2013 at 7:08:20 PM

[up]With politics shifting to the right,that might actually be a help,...and if Christie did win the Repub primary,he'd lose a close battle,...which wouldn't happen if it's Biden.

edited 23rd Mar '13 7:10:48 PM by terlwyth

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#51763: Mar 23rd 2013 at 7:56:40 PM

The average in politics has shifted right, but the mean has shifted left among the general populace. They just don't like being branded as liberals because the wackjobs on the far right are loony and loud and scary. People love leftist policies right up until the words Democrat, liberal, or Obama are associated with them. It's kind of stupid.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51764: Mar 23rd 2013 at 7:58:51 PM

and hey look, a case in point. Someone changes their mind in politics and his former allies abandon him for daring to deviate from the faith.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#51765: Mar 23rd 2013 at 8:35:26 PM

And that's why you usually don't hear much from losing Presidential candidates again,unless they're Senators (Ex:Barry Goldwater, John Kerry)

Hmmm I wonder if politics have actually shifted far enough to make Goldwater look like a leftist now? Was Goldwater farther right or farther left than Reagan,cause Reagan would probably be a Dem again.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#51766: Mar 24th 2013 at 1:24:33 AM

Re: Romney:

I think there are some politicians who just aren't adapted to the modern era. They seem to think that, if they're speaking to a certain audience, they don't have to worry about anyone outside that audience hearing them. In the days of limited print space and only an hour's worth of news coverage in the evenings, that may have worked. But when you've got the Internet and 24-hour news networks documenting every public appearance politicians make, that sort of pandering tends to get noticed more.

edited 24th Mar '13 1:24:56 AM by RavenWilder

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51767: Mar 24th 2013 at 6:59:28 AM

[up]

This is kind of a general problem with the repiublican party in general, actually. One of the mjor reasons cited to why Obama's get out the vote efforts were so effective is the republicans seem endlessly clueless about the interwebs.

Granted, Democrats in congress seem just as clueless given they still prefer calling computer experts "the nerds" as though being tech savvy was a bad thing,

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51768: Mar 24th 2013 at 7:24:23 AM

The lack of 'net savvy among politicians is a factor of age as much as anything else. In a generation we will have very few politicians who don't understand it, and we'll even have many who have grown up as video gamers.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#51769: Mar 24th 2013 at 7:39:45 AM

Shouldn't we have that already? The SNES and Genesis are over 20 years old at this point. A kid who played them when he was ten would be old enough to serve in congress.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#51770: Mar 24th 2013 at 7:53:12 AM

Yeah, but it's disturbingly easy to twist that into a bad thing. "He's a gamer! He wants to kill everyone!" Only the stupid and uninformed would buy that, but there appears to be enough of them that it would be a problem.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#51771: Mar 24th 2013 at 8:18:11 AM

[up][up]The average age of members of Congress is around 60. Certainly there are some 60 year olds (and older) who are tech-savvy enough, and certainly there are some members of Congress who know what they're talking about in regards to tech issues... but they're a minority in both cases, generally speaking.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51772: Mar 24th 2013 at 9:24:18 AM

Meh, the term nerd has become less incendiary over the years, though obviously it depends on how it's used in context.

I usually take references to "the nerds" to be "the guys who are overly technical" these days.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#51773: Mar 24th 2013 at 10:29:14 AM

It's still less respectful than, say, "telecommunications technology experts". It implies that they're dismissive of those people — and, by extension, that field. Maybe that's reading a bit too much into it, but politicians of all people should know the importance that labels have.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51774: Mar 24th 2013 at 10:49:10 AM

[up]

This.

As John Stewart put it after showing multiple clips of people in congress reacting to the backlash to SOPA with confusion and statements of "maybe we should ask the nerds"

"Dont you mean...experts?"

which is a p;roblem in itself that Congress apparently ran with SOPA without even thinking "lets ask computer experts first"

edited 24th Mar '13 10:49:50 AM by Midgetsnowman

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#51775: Mar 24th 2013 at 10:50:16 AM

Didn't they show how dismissive they were during the SOPA/PIPA debacle?

Edit: Ninja'd.

edited 24th Mar '13 10:50:31 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

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