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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#51676: Mar 22nd 2013 at 2:16:48 PM

There are already states that criminalize miscarriage and multiple women in jail for it right now in the United States.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#51677: Mar 22nd 2013 at 2:37:49 PM

[up]

You have got to be fucking kidding me. (*checks).

Oh Jesus.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#51678: Mar 22nd 2013 at 2:40:26 PM

How. Just how is this possible? Even right-wing stupidity shouldn't be able to account for that.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#51679: Mar 22nd 2013 at 2:40:57 PM

And that's why the idea isn't ridiculous. When they're already doing it, then it's obvious that it's not an absurd idea.

Basically, there's places where if you can't prove that there was no human involvement, and proving a negative is very hard, then they charge you for murder.

edited 22nd Mar '13 2:41:41 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Linhasxoc Since: Jun, 2009
#51680: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:20:24 PM

Can you provide sources? It's not so much that I don't believe you, as I don't really want to believe you.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#51681: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:24:34 PM

Just search in Google for "criminalize miscarriage"

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#51682: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:26:37 PM

[up][up][up]Where did presumption of innocence go?

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51683: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:34:22 PM

[up]

About the same place as the concept that anyone who wasnt 100% anti-abortion was not personally walking into abortion clinics and murdering babies for lulz

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#51684: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:38:40 PM

So you're telling me that miscarriage, which is a purely natural (if awful) process, is criminalized in some places? Were the 'legitimate rape' people behind it?

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51685: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:42:01 PM

My understanding is the logic is "we cant tell the difference between an accidental miscarriage and someone throwing themselves down a staircase, therefore to avoid even a single baby killer getting away with murder, we'll charge them all with murder"

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#51686: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:46:02 PM

Here's one. Here's another. Here's a third. There are more.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#51687: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:52:14 PM

Hmm...this seems like an area where the laws should be much clearer than they seem to be. It looks to me like there's a lot of gray area. Plus, if I could see what the laws actually were, than I'd be more able to criticize them. If someone actually does have a law saying they'll charge miscarriage as murder, then yeah, that's stupid. But using cocaine during your pregnancy should be a crime.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#51688: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:53:15 PM

[up][up][up] I think there's a quote relevant to that mindset. Something about "ten guilty men go[ing] free" rather than one innocent imprisoned.

edited 22nd Mar '13 3:53:37 PM by OhnoaBear

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#51689: Mar 22nd 2013 at 3:56:26 PM

To quote the third article:

Targeting women who use drugs while they are pregnant is exactly the wrong policy for protecting the health of their future children. When a woman who is addicted to drug becomes pregnant, she needs immediate treatment to ensure that her addiction does not lead to serious birth defects for her child. But the threat of criminal prosecution — especially for a crime as serious as murder — will only drive her into the shadows. For this reason, dozens of public health organizations including the American Public Health Association have all denounced these prosecutions as harmful to both woman and child.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#51690: Mar 22nd 2013 at 4:00:57 PM

Yeah, I read that. And thought it wasn't clear enough. If you're addicted to drugs, become pregnant, and turn yourself in for rehabilitation and care, then you shouldn't be charged for it. But if you knowingly continue to use drugs while pregnant, you deserve jail time.

edited 22nd Mar '13 4:02:00 PM by Ultrayellow

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#51691: Mar 22nd 2013 at 4:05:39 PM

[up]The problem is... addiction messes with your head. Big time. <_< Intervention is often required... and, not the police-charged-and-locked-up kind, either. tongue When you can't think logically, working out that 1) you're preggers and 2) you need to see the doctor isn't easy when 3) you're scared stiff of the Man, anyway... thanks to, you know... the drugs-thing (so, trying very hard to live in denial will be the number one tactic). tongue

Playing the ostrich for too long? Very likely to happen. <_<

edited 22nd Mar '13 4:10:20 PM by Euodiachloris

Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#51692: Mar 22nd 2013 at 4:09:40 PM

Ok, fair enough. I hadn't considered that. But that said, you've still proven yourself unfit to care for the child, and should lose custody, as well as being forced into rehab as your only alternative to jail. Because there are only two options. Either you're not responsible for your actions, at which point you shouldn't be responsible for a child, or you've willfully endangered a child, at which point you certainly shouldn't be responsible for a child.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#51693: Mar 22nd 2013 at 4:12:48 PM

Sound fair to me. Just one problem: Having a safe birth in the first place.

Should the mother maintain custady? Probably not. But sort of hard to do that before it is born or if there has been a miscarage already.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#51694: Mar 22nd 2013 at 4:58:30 PM

Is being lawful stupid part of the Republican platform or is it just a coincidence so many behave that way?

edited 22nd Mar '13 4:58:48 PM by Kostya

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#51695: Mar 22nd 2013 at 5:00:23 PM

Coincidence.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#51696: Mar 22nd 2013 at 5:15:12 PM

IIRC a lot of these were due to laws initially designed to increase penalties for violence against pregnant women (typically by an abusive spouse).

Naturally, Mississippi and Alabama are fucking insane in going about it.

edited 22nd Mar '13 5:15:47 PM by Pykrete

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#51697: Mar 22nd 2013 at 5:39:57 PM

... You guys ever really want to move out the US sometimes?

Never. I personally hold a certain level of disdain for Americans (be they Liberals or Conservatives) who would rather flee than stay and try to fix there nation's problems.

Senate endorses Keystone XL in budget amendment vote

The Senate on Friday evening rejected Senator Marco Rubio's amendment to the 2014 budget that calls for new criminal penalties for abortions performed on minors outside their home state.

The top House Democrat (Bennie Thompson) on homeland security criticized a division of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) on Friday for its role in the failed gun tracking operation, Fast and Furious, after a new report detailed the agency’s involvement.

Paul Ryan's budget rejected in Senate on 40-59 vote

President Obama on Friday withdrew his nomination of Caitlin Halligan to the federal appeals court in the District of Columbia after the New York lawyer was twice filibustered by Republicans in the Senate.

Los Angeles mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said Friday that he was told President Obama was "absolutely livid" over omissions of God and Jerusalem as the capital of Israel from the Democratic platform. But, he added, the Obama campaign was to blame for the embarrassing and uncertain floor vote to reinsert the provisions at the party's convention

Jeb Bush says brother taken to painting dogs 'with a vengeance'

...That last article...

edited 22nd Mar '13 5:50:22 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#51698: Mar 22nd 2013 at 5:41:55 PM

... You guys ever really want to move out the US sometimes?

Very rarely. When I do, it's not because of anything about America, it's because other places have cool things. However, in the end, I'd prefer to change America so that it's better rather than go somewhere that is better. By changing America to something better, I'm benefiting everyone who lives here rather than just myself.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#51699: Mar 22nd 2013 at 5:46:33 PM

I'd be completely okay with moving to Canada for a job. Typically, most of the software companies I apply to have more openings in Canada or Europe than here anyway.

However, there is something to be said for the fact that people disgustedly moving out of America instead of fixing it just concentrates stupid and makes it suck worse for the whole world.

edited 22nd Mar '13 5:48:03 PM by Pykrete

Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#51700: Mar 22nd 2013 at 6:02:38 PM

@ LA mayor: ...I'm confused about what his goal in making that statement was. :/

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!

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