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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#51651: Mar 22nd 2013 at 8:59:29 AM

The Move to Canada meme doesn't really have much basis to it. I've read somewhere that Americans generally don't emigrate that much except in cases of romantic relationships and job opportunities. And even then its still somewhat uncommon; in the former situation the opposite can occur and in the latter they often become expatriates but retain their citizenship.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51652: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:00:14 AM

I know a Canadian who moved here for marriage. Lives in Texas now. That must have been quite a culture shock.

edited 22nd Mar '13 9:00:35 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#51653: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:07:28 AM

Interestingly, Canada tends to be high on, or top, the list of places people from Britain would move to in order to escape the worst of this country. Presumably, it's seen as a happy middle ground of sorts between the US and UK, though my liberal Canadian friends are rather unhappy at what's happening there. That's better suited for its own thread though.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#51654: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:17:05 AM

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13226639100A88052200

You mean this one, I believe.

Also I believe there's a slow swing to the Left going on. France elected a President who I believe is near Obama position-wise as opposed to his right wing opponent, though that seems to be a backlash to German insistence on austerity. Germany regionally seems to be voting out the Free Market-ist Free Democratic Party for the Third Way/Social Democratic "Social Democratic Party of Germany", which spells bad news for the current Federal Coalition (Merkel's Christian Democratic Union of Germany party plus the Free Democratic Party). The Popular Vote WAS with the Democrats for the 2012 Elections in the US.

Sadly I'm worried a significant swing to the Left is going to require something really bad to happen, economically, though.

edited 22nd Mar '13 9:18:20 AM by PotatoesRock

Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#51655: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:18:24 AM

Actually, I think the reason my family moved north of the border was related to politics in a roundabout way. My dad's job (for a biotech company) required him to move closer to the headquarters, which was located in Canada to avoid Bush-era regulations on stem cell research. (Or something like that. I don't remember the exact details.)

edited 22nd Mar '13 9:19:28 AM by Blueeyedrat

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#51656: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:19:02 AM

@Potatoes: The moderates are swinging to the left, but the right are becoming more fanatical and marching out to vote in greater numbers, counterbalancing the silent majority by their loudness.

The problem with democracy is that smart people know that, individually, their vote won't make a damn bit of difference. So only the dumb and the principled vote.

Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#51657: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:20:39 AM

Almost posted this in the Econ thread do to the derial over there... too good not to post.

I'm of the belief that basically all our problems can be traced back to Technology. If you think about it, technology is changing so fast that humanity just can't keep up.

In this case, we haven't figured out a good way to handle the additional infromation that we recieve from/about the Government.

When our government was set up people didn't have the time, or would have to go well out of their way, to keep up with all the details about their state government—let alone the federal one. So they would vote for the person who they could trust. As time went on (and people were able to learn more about the decisions in Washington) people started having opnions about the "little" decisions and started loosing that trust in their pollititions when the person they voted for made a decision that they didn't agree with.

And now we have the radio/TV/the internet. Everyone can be a Know-Nothing Know-It-All (the closest trope to "know enough to be dangerious" I could find and a great place to start a Wiki Walk...) and/or create (is that the right word?) the Dunning–Kruger effect. Elections are now about who can use this to the best effect and politics is about who can stay in office.

I wouldn't want to "rewind" to those earlier days, but we have only had about two generations (thus far) with this sort of instaint comunication tech to figure out how to use it. Considerting that it took civilazations hudreads of years to "stablize" in the past (and that is with much fewer people), it makes sense that we are still making mistakes and trying to figure out what to do with what we've got.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#51658: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:28:07 AM

France elected a President who I believe is near Obama position-wise

In Europe Obama would be considered a right-wing politician. Hollande is way left of Obama.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#51659: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:36:07 AM

The FDP is not getting voted out because a swing to the left in Germany. Its because the party has degenerated to a bad joke and lost most of its "liberal" elements.

My personal prediction is that the next Federal Government in Germany is going to be Christian-Democratic-Union (our Conservatives) and the Social Democrats (Our "sort of left"-ish) as a big coalition, with the CDU being the senior partner.

Also, what america calls "conservative" and "left" is something very different from what we call it.

[up] this.

I'd wish we could send the Americans Sara Wagenknecht, so you could see how a real left politician looks (and we'd be rid of her.)

edited 22nd Mar '13 9:39:18 AM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#51660: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:45:12 AM

Hrm, I remember reading a lot of articles that Hollande and Obama were both similarly viewed as Centist from observers. Sorry then. (Though I feel a lot of Obama's right winging has more of a function of political realities of the current times more than anything else. Then again, not in Europe so my view point of "Right" is skewed to how you say "Right".)

Also, I believe the SPD has said they have no interest in forming a coliation with Merkel.

Still I don't think a Left swing is going to happen until we go full out retarded Depression or something. :/ Though I can see the argument about the issue being technology.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51661: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:46:54 AM

We are in a depression. Full-on. Collective Eurozone employment and GDP are way down from their projected peak, with no signs of long term recovery, and European politicians seem determined to make the problems worse. In America, we're still dealing with stubbornly high unemployment and GDP is way off peak.

Hollande is leftist by American standards, but in practice he's acting as a centrist conciliator, much like Obama. Their roles are similar, even if their politics don't perfectly match.

edited 22nd Mar '13 9:47:25 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#51662: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:47:06 AM

[up][up]I wouldn't be surprised that Obama be viewed as centrist by Americans, and Holland viewed as centrist by French.

edited 22nd Mar '13 9:47:16 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#51663: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:50:49 AM

We are in a depression. Full-on. Collective Eurozone employment and GDP are way down from their projected peak, with no signs of long term recovery, and European politicians seem determined to make the problems worse. In America, we're still dealing with stubbornly high unemployment and GDP is way off peak.
I mean super ugly far far nastier "It got worse" Depression.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51664: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:51:37 AM

@Potatoes: We could still get there. If Paul Ryan's budget goes through, or if one of the Eurozone countries collapses completely, the whole mess could unravel.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#51665: Mar 22nd 2013 at 9:57:28 AM

I'm aware. I'm saying I feel that the only thing that's going to force a step back from the Right Wing Political push is essentially something resembling to a "Oh God What Have I Done" moment, and the only thing I see causing is the Great Recession/Great Depression 2 getting even worse. Basically someone has to make a really stupid move at this point to make everyone stop parroting about how eff'ing amazing Austerity is.

Then again, that might just cause everyone to go "We need Austerity II: Auster Harder". sad

edited 22nd Mar '13 9:57:48 AM by PotatoesRock

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#51666: Mar 22nd 2013 at 10:14:45 AM

Hollande is a Leftist by French standards.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#51667: Mar 22nd 2013 at 10:53:03 AM

@Belian: Most of our problems are caused by technology, because technology has also solved most of humanity's historical problems. Funny how that works.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#51668: Mar 22nd 2013 at 11:53:19 AM

I doubt that the Senate would ever let a Ryan budget through without seriously adjusting it at least.

But a second Depression? That would be nasty considering the rise of fringe movements like the Tea Party, scary as hell neo-fascists in Greece and elsewhere in Europe, et all... We don't need to repeat the 1930s in a world with atomic weapons, we can't afford it.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#51669: Mar 22nd 2013 at 11:59:07 AM

Technology exponentially increases humanity's power, for good and bad. For over a century it's been noted that uneven distribution of power + exponential power multiplication = increasing disparity in power, and hence greater strain on civilization; it seems the stress is becoming more visible recently.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#51670: Mar 22nd 2013 at 12:04:32 PM

[up][up]

I personally don't think there will be a new World War - we're too economically interlinked. Then again, an uncomfortable voice in the back of my head keeps reminding me that people said exactly the same things this time last century. Nevertheless, if there is to be a WWIII in our lifetimes (God forbid), then I think it will come out of Asia, not the West.

Back on (scarcely-cheerier) topic:

Obamacare not repealed. Nobody remotely surprised.

Louisiana may not restrict firearms from convicted felons. Because the state constitution describes the right to bear arms as a "fundamental right", a judge ruled that a law barring certain felons from owning guns was unconstitutional.

I'm torn about this decision: On the one hand, letting convicted felons own a gun is a self-evidently stupid thing to do. On the other, the decision was legally sound, it is not the role of the courts to dictate the law, only apply it, and I am strongly in favour of anything described as a "fundamental right" being interpreted as broadly and as generously as possible. So...a tentative hooray, with the proviso that Louisiana pull its head out its ass and re-amend their constitution.

edited 22nd Mar '13 12:11:49 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#51671: Mar 22nd 2013 at 1:26:57 PM

Re Obamacare: You know, I wonder how much money is being wasted on this act of political posturing.

Re Louisiana: Yeah, Needs A Less Idiotic Gun Rights Thing.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#51672: Mar 22nd 2013 at 1:41:00 PM

I find it funny that strict adherence to the constitution means Louisiana gets to hand off gun rights to the only people the right ever feels fine and dandy about admitting theyre stripping rights from.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#51673: Mar 22nd 2013 at 2:00:18 PM

Apparently one of the Dakotas just granted fertilized eggs person hood status. Now I'm not the most knowledgeable but is it true that this means a miscarriage could be deemed manslaughte?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#51674: Mar 22nd 2013 at 2:03:36 PM

North Dakota. If the law is poorly written, it might criminalize miscarriage, although I do not see many courts convicting.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#51675: Mar 22nd 2013 at 2:04:18 PM

[up][up]

Presumably not - I imagine it would be "death by misadventure" or some such. Unless the law is moronically written. However, it makes no difference, as Roe v Wade grants women a constitutional right to an abortion. Unless this is part of some cunning plan to force the case before the Roberts court, which might overturn Roe.

Actually, that could well be their plan. Fuck.

edited 22nd Mar '13 2:05:21 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

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