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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#51251: Mar 15th 2013 at 12:35:03 PM

I'm not denying that it's his own fault that he didn't go out and find the information, but just look at Romney, it's entirely to easy for me to believe that this guy was totally ignorant of the level of problems facing LGBT people. People are very good at denying reality even when it's right in front of them, the senator just appears to me to have not been so good at denying reality that he could doublethink his way out of this.

Edit: Starship, to use you as an example. Think of how much your views have changed due to coming here and having LGBT troopers open your eyes about the things that are done. Does that make you intellectually dishonest? Now what if instead of having the conversation with us you'd instead ended up having it with someone you already care about. What's the difference?

edited 15th Mar '13 12:38:42 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#51252: Mar 15th 2013 at 12:39:09 PM

I'm mean he didn't come out with his new opinion immediately after finding out about his son. He did spend to 2 years thinking about it. Which does show that he really thought that it was wrong and never really question it; would he ever? Who knows, but it does lean to not really. Over all the only thing that we can take from this is that he like to stay in his comfort zone and he only willing to go out of it when he has to.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#51253: Mar 15th 2013 at 12:45:04 PM

What...

Hey, this isn't something you're supposed to admit. You can think it and act that way but outright stating it is taboo. Someone is going to get reprimanded.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#51254: Mar 15th 2013 at 12:46:31 PM

That looks to me more like he simply chose to call him "the black guy" rather than "the democrat" or "Obama".

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#51255: Mar 15th 2013 at 12:48:12 PM

Over all the only thing that we can take from this is that he like to stay in his comfort zone and he only willing to go out of it when he has to

You mean, kinda like every other person in the world?

edited 15th Mar '13 12:48:49 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#51256: Mar 15th 2013 at 12:50:04 PM

@silsaw and confuse: Good point. Your right.

[up]As a politician it is your job to know about things outside of your comfort zone. Even if the vast majority of people don't go there you have to know at least some of the other positions well.

edited 15th Mar '13 12:52:24 PM by Wildcard

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#51257: Mar 15th 2013 at 12:51:07 PM

[up][up]Well then he needs to watch what he says. Even if he did just use it in place of Obama or the Democrat why did he need to add black to it? It doesn't look good coming from a party that's been frantically denying that it is racist. He could have said "the guy" and it would have raised no issue. We all know who he means.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#51258: Mar 15th 2013 at 12:53:08 PM

If your first instinct is to call the President "the black guy," that kinda speaks to your character.

However, that does seem like some alarmist headline from TP. Shame. SHAAAAAAAAAAME.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#51259: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:02:35 PM

Honestly, I'd respect the man more if his son's revelation hadn't affected his stance on the issue at all ... whichever stance he held on the matter beforehand. If it took a family member with skin in the game to change his stance, then one of two things is true:

  • He's a dull-witted drone who hadn't given adequate thought to the issues it's his damned job to legislate until it finally got personal, or
  • He's a soft-headed windmill who'll betray a principle as soon as that principle is revealed to be inconvenient for his son.

Neither speaks very well of Portman. And I'd feel the same way if he were a Democrat who suddenly "got religion" on a right-wing stance because it suddenly affected his family's interests.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51260: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:07:18 PM

I hate to say it, but I'm with Jhimm here. I don't think it's particuarly courageous to change one's position the moment it's personal. Granted, I think that it can help to hit home just how monstrous his earlier position was-"holy crap, I get it now" and all that-but ignoring that aspect, it strikes me as a bit slimely to only care about the issues that personally affect one's self and one's immediate family.

Obviously, going from "I have no position on this issue" to "suddenly this is my hot button issue" is totally okay, mind you.

edited 15th Mar '13 1:07:43 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#51261: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:11:38 PM

[up]Does this really seem odd? People generally don't care about stuff until it directly affects them. Look at how rich and middle class people view welfare.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#51262: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:16:20 PM

I would like to think we could hold our politicians to being at least slightly better than the statistically average common man, mmm?

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#51263: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:17:52 PM

If you're one of those people who won't care about an issue until it becomes personal you definitely should not become a politician. Politicians have to try to be informed (to a reasonable extent) about all or at least most of the issues that they're going to vote on. If you'll only care about things that have a personal connection to you, please stay out of politics and leave your seat to someone who can actually be bothered.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#51264: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:24:38 PM

Plus, it's not like he didn't care about the issue before. He did care about it. He just supported the other side. So this isn't him going from "I don't really care about this issue" to "This is important to me!" He went from "I support position X" to "I support position Y."

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#51265: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:26:55 PM

[up][up]I think that's asking for a little too much. There are just some issues that certain people don't particularly care about. Now if you're just focusing on one thing that's detrimental to you doing your job but I can understand not having any strong opinion on some things.

edit: Expected but still fucking annoying. Hopefully this will piss off some of their poorer constituents enough to not vote for them(I don't think they'll go Democrat but not voting for the Republican is good enough for me).

edited 15th Mar '13 1:28:59 PM by Kostya

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#51266: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:35:41 PM

I'm not expecting you to care about every issue. Just the ones you're going to vote on, as well as everything you intend to talk publicly about.

If even that is too much, on some issues you'll just have to read the brief that your assistant gave you, and vote based on that. Maybe on some pretty insignificant issues you'll just have to give up and vote along the party line because you don't have the time to read even the briefest of summaries. Ideally that would never happen but maybe it will. If that's the case, though, you're not supposed to give public talks or answer questions about that subject with anything except "I don't have an opinion about this" or "I'm still looking into this" or something like that.

A politician should be able to justify every vote they make with something else than "that's what the rest of the party did."

edited 15th Mar '13 1:36:01 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#51267: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:39:19 PM

As a politician it is your job to know about things outside of your comfort zone. Even if the vast majority of people don't go there you have to know at least some of the other positions well.

Agreed. But I find it strange we demand so much of our politicians, but not from our general populace. Our politicians aren't just hatched you know, they come from...the general populace.

We celebrate ignorance. Look at this very site, with it's predominantly liberal and "progressive" views. There are times when the mere fact you say "Perhaps this person had a point besides dog-raping villainy" gets you labelled....a dog raping villain.

I say, until we encourage people to actually seek out other viewpoints and to at least consider the possibility theirs is not the sum total of all knowledge, it is a pipe dream to think our political leaders will do any better.

Honestly, I'd respect the man more if his son's revelation hadn't affected his stance on the issue at all ... whichever stance he held on the matter beforehand. If it took a family member with skin in the game to change his stance, then one of two things is true:

• He's a dull-witted drone who hadn't given adequate thought to the issues it's his damned job to legislate until it finally got personal, or • He's a soft-headed windmill who'll betray a principle as soon as that principle is revealed to be inconvenient for his son.

Neither speaks very well of Portman. And I'd feel the same way if he were a Democrat who suddenly "got religion" on a right-wing stance because it suddenly affected his family's interests.

QFT. [tup]

edited 15th Mar '13 1:40:36 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#51268: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:42:14 PM

But he didn't come out and said that after I found out my son was gay that I now approve of gay marriage. He spend two years to think about. He honestly thought that it was wrong and didn't change his opinion until he had to think about. No one is saying that you have to praise him for it. We have to tell him to do this for all his opinion.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#51269: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:43:33 PM

[up] Agreed.

It was an honor
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#51270: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:43:53 PM

But I find it strange we demand so much of our politicians, but not from our general populace.
Well, if they are supposed to represent the common man, then I'd say we've failed in a number of ways (most politicians are much wealthier than the average), but I suppose we should call it a victory that they are as dumb as the average man? I don't follow.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#51271: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:50:41 PM

I didn't mean to suggest that our elected leaders should not be held to higher standards than the populace. That's a violation of basic leadership. The captain of a ballistic missile sub should be more knowledgeable on the operation of the boat that the E3 sonar tech. So too, the rear admiral who gives the captain orders should be that much more knowledgeable.

But, it seems that the electorate want politicians to uphold values they themselves don't believe in. That's a problem. And it seems to be a problem in all democracies.

That would be like the Navy being appalled that a captain had no idea how to authenticate incoming orders, but overlooked the fact that the sonar tech couldn't even turn on the radio.

In any organization, there should be a common set of standards that everyone at all levels of the hierarchy believes in. Not everyone in the Air Force needs to pilot an F-16, but I sure as hell hope they'd all take their oath to defend to country seriously.

It was an honor
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#51272: Mar 15th 2013 at 2:07:57 PM

Oh, come on, Romney.

Quit using the same damn line you used when you thought you would win last years election.

Just accept your damn loss already.

Watch Symphogear
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#51273: Mar 15th 2013 at 2:14:21 PM

[up]

In all honesty, it doesn't sound like he didn't accept his lost, just empty rhetoric for his base. They all do it.

What do you expect him to say when asked to address conservative activists? "Yeah, we got fucked, it's the end of days, it's the end, we're DOOOOOOOMED!

edited 15th Mar '13 2:15:15 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#51274: Mar 15th 2013 at 2:16:06 PM

Our politicians aren't just hatched you know-The Starship Maxima

I'm not quite sure about that.evil grin

Really though I'm not quite sure I agree with this. We value the idea that people should look into every issue and think their positions through carefully right? Well if something changed and I got a lot less time to think about issues I would think the president or other politicians would still think about a lot more issues then I do. Maybe that sounds hypocritical but I'd prefer my president to embody the values I subscribe to even if I fail to execute them myself.

Though we should all seek out different viewpoints more often, that I can agree with.

edited 15th Mar '13 2:19:43 PM by Wildcard

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#51275: Mar 15th 2013 at 2:24:22 PM

And Wildcard sir, you have struck the proverbial nail on the head.

As I tried to illustrate in my somewhat clunky military analogy, it's not necessary that we all meet the same standards, but we must all value them.

You, Card, care about learning more, about seeking truth. Now imagine if the whole country was like you. We'd elect leaders that cared about learning about all the issues affecting all of their constituents.

But turn on a TV and look at the shows. Look at how many talk shows are popular because they feed idiotic myopia and encourage people that "those guys" are the devil. Look at comments sections on the internet and see how ignorance and rhetoric are celebrated over close inspection and comprimise.

Then tell me you're surprised our elected officials are the same way.

It was an honor

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