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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
We've profiled these people. Romney and the Kochs and such ... they don't see it as "buying elections". They see it as getting what is theirs by right. People in that level of society don't "want" things. They are given them. They come for the wishing, as long as the dollar signs have enough zeroes after them.
That's why losing is so baffling to them. They don't see it as "losing the support of the people". They wonder why those zeroes didn't come back with power attached, like they always have before.
edited 21st Feb '13 6:25:53 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"So they were taking Screw the Rules, I Have Money! as something akin to an ideology, then?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.Big Bird teams up with first lady Michelle Obama to promote kids' health
Romney Will Thank ‘Friends And Supporters’ At CPAC
Rush Limbaugh: I am ‘ashamed of my country’
I think Rush might have a mental breakdown sometime this decade. Possibly a heart attack as well.
Obama: Helping rich only thing that 'binds' GOP together
15 G.O.P. Senators Urge Hagel’s Withdrawal as Democrats Push Toward Vote
Attorney Claims Ex-Mayor too uneducated to know whether his six-figure salary was illegal.
lol.
edited 21st Feb '13 6:49:40 PM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016"Entitlement" is a good word to describe that thinking. Tu quoque, but that's how it goes when you try to leverage something with money rather than common sense or the law.
Glove and Boots is good for Blog!@Deviant: Bush wasn't a neocon - his cabinet and Vice President were. Neocons are center-right when it comes to the economy and are social liberals. Bush is just a standard conservative with some sprinkling of neoconservatism.
His dad. Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, and Colin Powel are neoconservative.
edited 21st Feb '13 6:54:48 PM by Completion
Even "entitlement" is a bit too weak. Think Divine Right of Kings, but focused on wealth. They are the inheritors of a paradigm that has been handed down from ancient times, in which wealth and the power that comes with it automatically convey upon one a higher moral standing.
You are literally better than those around you with less. They don't register to you as people with feelings and concerns; they are on the same level as the dogs that you throw scraps to when you're feeling generous. But if those dogs don't hunt on command, you have them shot and replaced with ones who will.
When they make a decision that benefits themselves at the expense of those other people, they don't see it as evil or depraved; it's simply how the world works. People exist to serve their needs, because they are the ones with the wealth. It's an alien mindset to most of us, but it's actually how they think.
Edit: Bush wasn't a neocon; he wasn't much of an anything. He may have had opinions, but they were more or less subsumed by the demands of his party and of his close advisers. Cheney in particular. I suppose, if anything, Dubya was a plutocrat, an oil guy, backed by the likes of the Kochs and entirely beholden to them.
edited 21st Feb '13 7:04:27 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Fighteer, what the hell are you talking about? You're so good at empathy for the American poor, how about at least a halfhearted effort to understand the rich, hm?
Have you ever met someone rich who actually acted like you seem to think the rich do? Can you not see that you're painting a picture of someone who's completely delusional? If he's completely out of touch with reality, how on earth do you think Romney was so wildly successful? And please don't just say money, because getting into Harvard, at least, is not easy to do no matter how rich you are.
I didn't think Romney would make a good president, and I don't now. But the fact is, he seems to have been a morally upstanding man, a great husband and father, and a law-abiding citizen. He just happened to believe in a set of ideals which you and I don't share. His running for president was no more selfish than Obama running for president, it's just less palatable to you. So I don't want to listen to you spouting what essentially amounts to Democratic propaganda about sociopathic rich people. The election is over. Leave the man alone.
Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.Huntsman backs gay marriage, calls for conservatives to push issue
A few socially progressive points would probably enable the GOP to take over the youth vote. Libertarianism is on the rise as a political philosophy right now. I don't think Republicans economic policies are all that distasteful to younger voters, it's the easier-to-understand social policies that are.
And nobody cares about foreign policy at all anymore, as long as we stay out of war.
Edit: You think? I'll grant you a few people like the Koch brothers, but even neocons are still human. Bush, for instance, did more to stop AIDS then any other president, including Obama.
edited 21st Feb '13 7:27:39 PM by Ultrayellow
Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
x6 Part of the problem is that it is extremely difficult for humans to empathize with those less fortunate. The rich are looking out for their own interests to the point that it's hurting the poor, but they honestly don't realize it. Or at least most of them don't. I guess a few could be that horrible. The point is that they may feel entitled or whatever, but most people would in that position.
EDIT: Factual mistake.
edited 21st Feb '13 7:49:33 PM by Zendervai
No Deviant don't call 'em Goldwater Republicans,...Goldwater is a bare flick in the grand scheme of things,....It's Reagan that you have to credit. He's the figurehead of things,not Goldwater,...and so to re-label correctly.
Reagan Republicans: (Centre-right social, Far right economic)
Rockefeller Republicans: (Far-left social,centre-right economic)
Bush Republicans: (Centrist) [I'm referring to Bush Senior not Dubya]
Paul Republicans (Libertarian)
Tea Party Republicans: (Far Right)
Cheney Republicans: (Neo-cons)
But to suggest that rich people equate the poor with dogs? It's completely ridiculous. Sure, I get that most rich people are out of touch with the way the poor live. And Romney certainly was. But that's not the argument I was responding to.
Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.UY: Have the rich given any indication they give a damn about us? Some might but they're few and far between. Also I personally find it much easier to feel sympathy for the poor because they're the victims in this scenario. The rich have money and power and are doing their damndest to keep it away from the masses that are suffering under their abuses. I can't see how that isn't sociopathic.
The poor have their share of problems but many are caused by the bad environment they grow up in. Said environment is perpetuated by their lack of money which is being withhheld by the rich. No matter how you look at it it's largely their fault.
edit: Okay so they're not sociopaths. That still doesn't make them blameless. It just means they're ignorant of what they're doing. It's the stupid vs evil argument. I don't care what causes it I just want it to stop.
edited 21st Feb '13 7:34:05 PM by Kostya
Its saddening how true this is.
Gina McCarthy EPA Nomination By Obama Expected
I didn't ask you to feel sympathy, I asked you to understand them. You're simply repeating stereotypes. Its not as bad to stereotype the privileged as it is to stereotype the underprivileged, but it's still bad.
Rich people are not actively trying to suppress you. I'm from a reasonably wealthy family. I've met plenty of wealthy people. None of them think like that. Some of them stereotype or don't care/think about the poor, but that's as bad as it gets. I'm not saying you should support conservative candidates, I'm really not. I'm just saying you need to understand that people on the other side are people too. If you had shared their life experiences, you'd probably be doing the same things they are.
Edit: Who on earth would attempt to block an EPA nomination? Good Lord.
edited 21st Feb '13 7:38:42 PM by Ultrayellow
Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.It's not inaccurate, but yes, it might be overstating it a bit. It's not like the Koch Brothers are standing on top of the Empire State Building yelling "A God Am I!" Just that they think that they can get their way by throwing money at their agenda of choice.
It's simply a disconnect of those in power. The Koch brothers have a financial empire, and practically can't be touched, but they, and others who think they can play at politics, sometimes disconnect from the vast number of people working away to support them and who they are tasked to represent.
I'd not going to say that Biden isn't trying to find ways to reduce gun violence, for instance, but it's hard to accept his knowledge regarding the subject when he is advocating dangerous and illegal behavior such as firing shotgun shells out the window, simply because he lives in the woods (when most other Americans do not).
Glove and Boots is good for Blog!Certainly not all rich people are like that. We have plenty of wealthy folks who genuinely care for the world and do great things with their money. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and so forth.
But the mindset is exemplified by the Koch Brothers, Mitt Romney, many, many people in the finance industry, and CEOs of corporations who cut their employees' hours rather than give them health insurance.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"UY: I probably should watch what I say. However if they're not sociopathic then they must be unbelievablely ignorant. That's better I suppose but it still doesn't excuse their behavior in my mind. Right now they're an obstacle to welfare of the common people, their reason for being one is irrelevant in my mind.
I guess you can argue that us Dems toss all Republicans into one camp. Bush was an abjectly awful president, but we tend to blame a lot of what was wrong about his presidency on Cheney. I don't think Bush falls into the "divine right to wealth" camp, after all, but on the other hand, he's not really the type of person we're talking about in that context anyway. It's more about the Koch Brothers, the Sheldon Adlesons, and I suppose the Mitt Romneys.

There are basically 6 types of Republicans
Bush Republicans - (Neo-Conservatives)
Goldwater Republicans - (Libertarians)
Robertson Republicans - (The Religious Right)
Rockefeller Republicans - (Centrists)
Roosevelt Republicans - (Progressives)
Palin Republicans - (The Tea Party Crowd)
Right now we have the Palin Republicans trying to take control of the GOP away from the Bush Republicans. That's what all this infighting is about.
To emphasize the differences between Bush and Palin Republicans:
The Bush Republicans want cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
The Palin Republicans want to see those programs cease to exist. Minimum Wage would get the ax as well. Ditto for several government departments (the EPA is probably the most hated of all).
Most of the Palin Republicans see the Bush Republicans as the lesser of two evils when compared to the Democrats, but that's not saying much. On top of that a large number of them believe the reason Dole, Mc Cain, and Romney lost is because they weren't Conservative enough.
It should be noted I'm basing my assumptions of the Tea Party off of my experiences at Free Republic.Com
Meanwhile the Democrats have become the party of the Left, the Center-Left, The Center, and from the looks of it the Center-Right is starting to join the Coalition.
edited 21st Feb '13 6:25:44 PM by DeviantBraeburn
Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016