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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#49851: Feb 16th 2013 at 9:22:12 PM

Isn't there some way that the common citizenry can force a change in the system if they believe that their representatives aren't doing their jobs, and simply voting them out isn't a solution (as is the case here)? A popular referundum, for example?

Representatives are up for election every two years; at the pace congress moves, that's really not too long to wait to make a change.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#49852: Feb 16th 2013 at 9:56:22 PM

Appointed positions are kind of a bitch though.

Or other people's representatives, because unless they do something particularly horrible on all counts, almost every state is happy with their own and votes them in over and over but hates everyone else's.

edited 16th Feb '13 9:57:57 PM by Pykrete

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#49853: Feb 16th 2013 at 10:40:00 PM

You can be a convicted felon and still run for public office????

This explains a great many things.

It was an honor
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#49854: Feb 16th 2013 at 10:43:17 PM

Not really. The ex-felons that gain enough support to be serious contenders are usually the well-behaved sort, if not spectacularly so by necessity. Like I said earlier, our problem in public office is skeezy business put in a legal ivory tower.

edited 16th Feb '13 10:44:48 PM by Pykrete

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#49855: Feb 16th 2013 at 10:50:14 PM

If you'd be so kind Pykrete, please elaborate.

It was an honor
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#49856: Feb 17th 2013 at 12:44:11 AM

How much support would an ex-felon have to have to even be a serious contender?

How much are they likely to ever get from the general public without having a good record of acting like model citizens of rehabilitation long before their campaign?

I mean, I could maybe see Dave Dahl getting into some small-time local seat, and I wouldn't put it past Portlanders to vote him in on novelty and local celebrity regardless of any credentials he had. But you can't exactly pick a random ex-con fresh out of the dungeons and expect them to do well in an election.

And again, the politicians who are doing the most damage don't really have criminal records beyond a bit of 70's drug possession or traffic tickets. They're almost all lawyers or businessmen, and the damage is being done by business that is either skeezy and sociopathic but totally legal, or (occasionally) illegal but obfuscated and impossible to pin on anyone.

edited 17th Feb '13 12:53:51 AM by Pykrete

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#49857: Feb 17th 2013 at 7:42:31 AM

It's also to prevent, theoretically, the government wrecking someone's political career that they don't agree with.

Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#49858: Feb 17th 2013 at 10:01:46 AM

I'm not 100% positive, but believe that during the '70s and '80s, there were several elected Democrats with felony records—mostly ex-radicals (or at least toned-down radicals) who'd fallen afoul of the law during anti-Vietnam protests, campus uprisings, Black Panther/Weatherman-type activity, and the like. Ron Dellums and Tom Hayden come to mind, and there might have been others.

On the more defensible side, several civil-rights veterans acquired criminal records during anti-segregation protests and sit-ins. I don't have any use for John Lewis as a Representative, but certainly don't hold any arrest record he might have accumulated in the '60s against him, and am glad that it hasn't been allowed to affect his Congressional career (no matter how much I might deplore the latter).

DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#49859: Feb 17th 2013 at 10:03:19 AM

Initial Draft of Immigration Reform leaked

Feels more like an unofficial press release than a "leak", though.

White House response to the "leak".

edited 17th Feb '13 10:08:06 AM by DevilTakeMe

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49861: Feb 17th 2013 at 11:02:31 AM

Eh, it's an ideological thing, let him speak his mind on it :P

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#49862: Feb 17th 2013 at 12:12:31 PM

[up][up]

There is a school of thought among some military historians that what really sunk US involvement in Vietnam was not the deficiencies of the US Military in Vietnam but the way in which the left ran a highly successful anti-war campaign on US soil, which sapped the will of US politicians to continue the war and take the decisive action needed to end it. This, coupled with the shock of seeing the war much closer than anyone was used to on TV, and the media's need to present a sensational story, made the war politically rather than militarily unwinnable. For instance, the Tet Offensive was a military disaster for the NVA and the VC, but a political coup, because the media and the left presented it as crushing US/ARVN defeat.

This is not a universal view and it is often, though not exclusively, a right-wing one. This isn't the place to discuss it, nor do I wholly subscribe to it - I'm just filling you in on where I assume Jhimmibob is coming from.

edited 17th Feb '13 1:09:57 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#49863: Feb 17th 2013 at 12:22:04 PM

Yeah, I'm aware of that school of thought. It flies in the face of- ah screw it, that's a debate for another thread.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#49864: Feb 17th 2013 at 12:52:25 PM

Most valuable soldier in the NVA/Viet Minh during the Vietnam War?

Walter fucking Cronkite. Vo Nguyen Giap said as much once the war was over.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#49865: Feb 17th 2013 at 1:02:52 PM

Remind me how Walter Cronkite convinced draftees to frag their own commanding officers. The grunts knew the war was unwinnable. And don't tell me that hateful hippies drained the morale - it was the anti-war left who ran stuff like the veteran's coffee houses after the war was over and stepped in to listen to those guys while the DVA couldn't figure out how much psychological damage they'd taken.

How many Nam vets do you know?

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#49866: Feb 17th 2013 at 2:51:04 PM

GOP: Leaked White House immigration plan "counterproductive"

Tiger Woods Joins Vacationing Obama for Golf Round

Gary Doer, Canada’s ambassador to the U.S., believes the press is doing a lousy job covering the proposed Keystone XL oil sands pipeline that Canadian officials are urging the Obama administration to approve.

GOP Senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Rand Paul (R-KY) on Sunday highlighted the split within the Republican party on the effect of the looming $85 billion in sequester spending cuts slated to take effect on March 1. In interviews on "Fox News Sunday" Defense hawk Graham said the cuts would devastate the military, while Tea Party conservative Paul argued that the sequester is not really a cut at all in government spending.

Senator Schumer (D-NY): Dems hold 'high ground' in sequester debate

Senator McCain (R-AZ) expects broad support for universal background checks

Senator Rubio (R-FL): Reported Obama immigration plan ‘dead on arrival’

I not so sure the Vietnam War was unwinnable. Perhaps South Vietnam could have won if Congress hadn't cut funding to support South Vietnam's military in the wake of Watergate. Or maybe if Nixon hadn't sabotaged the 1968 Peace Talks

Still all people like Cronkite did was accurately report on the war. Even if that played a large role in changing America's views on the war; you can hardly blame him for doing his job.

edited 17th Feb '13 7:05:48 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#49867: Feb 17th 2013 at 4:04:08 PM

Then again, Cronkite clearly showed bias even back then. The "Most Trusted Man In America" often got away with things that would never fly in today's marketplace (long before Watergate, he bugged Republican committee meetings under the guise of "being good for democracy"). He had power over the people, and he often used that, under the guise of being honest and completely truthful.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#49868: Feb 17th 2013 at 4:20:55 PM

Senator Rand Paul (R-KY): Voters ready for Libertarian Republican in 2016

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#49869: Feb 17th 2013 at 4:22:37 PM

...I think what Rand Paul is saying here is that he should be the Republican candidate in 2016.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#49870: Feb 17th 2013 at 4:26:57 PM

[up]

The only way Paul could have been less subtle of his motives is if he had said "Hint, Hint. Wink, Wink." at the end of his statement.

Press Corps expresses ‘frustration’ over lack of access to Obama

edited 17th Feb '13 4:29:43 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#49871: Feb 17th 2013 at 4:27:36 PM

I hope he runs. He'll get destroyed once he starts spouting his BS on a national stage.

DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#49872: Feb 17th 2013 at 4:31:27 PM

Everyone's saying that someone wants to be a presidential candidate in FOUR YEARS time. There are seriously people who think Ted "Even John Mc Cain thinks I'm insane eight weeks into the job" Cruz is a serious Republican candidate for President.

I don't disagree with the thought of a conservative Libertarian as a Republican candidate, but I don't think Rand Paul is that guy and I still think it's too soon to be getting prepared right now.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
Lascoden ... from Missouri, USA Since: Nov, 2012
...
#49873: Feb 17th 2013 at 4:36:00 PM

[up]He's the one that seems to be preparing, though.

boop
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#49874: Feb 17th 2013 at 4:39:57 PM

Todd Akin says GOP bigwigs ‘kill grassroots heart’ of Republican party

I legitimately believe their is a dartboard with Akin's face on it located at the Republican National Committee's headquarters.

Paul Ryan on run for president: 'I don't know'

edited 17th Feb '13 4:53:39 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#49875: Feb 17th 2013 at 5:11:18 PM

I legitimately believe their is a dartboard with Akin's face on it located at the Republican National Committee's headquarters.
You misspelled "shooting range target".

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

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