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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Krugman hit on
the fallacy that Republicans continue to spew: that it was government that caused the housing crisis and not deregulation plus free enterprise.
@Devil Take Me: It is BATF's job to be an authority on firearms, just like it is CDC's job to be an authority on health and NASA's job to be an authority on space travel. BATF's rather hilarious lack of competence of late can be laid squarely at the feet of Congress and the White House, who have collectively done their best to strip the agency of its power and authority. It's an eminently fixable problem: increase the hiring cap, let them directly inspect and audit gun dealers, give them authority to track weapons — all the things Congress took away at the behest of the NRA.
Frankly, the NRA is approaching the level of a domestic terrorist group in that their blatant disdain for reality is aiding and abetting all these firearms-related tragedies. They would rather kids die in school massacres than a single restriction, law, or regulation be applied to gun owners.
edited 13th Feb '13 6:58:02 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Not much further. If you follow the narrative, you end with the Second American Civil War.
Keep Rolling OnWhich is ironic because it's the NRA's adherents who are the ones threatening armed revolution if anyone so much as thinks about taking their guns away.
When one side's argument is, "Let's hold a national debate about ways to reduce violence, particularly that violence abetted by firearms, given that the United States has the highest rate of firearm deaths per capita of any First World nation and some of the loosest laws and regulations;" and the other side's is, "You can take my guns from my cold, dead hands," it's kind of hard to reach any kind of deal.
Frankly, Tam, nobody has talked about jackbooted thugs marching across America to institute the rule of despotism except for people waving their AR-15's around and threatening to shoot anyone who looks at them funny. And the NRA is vocally on their side, including being the agency behind almost all of the neutering of Federal gun enforcement authority in recent memory.
edited 13th Feb '13 7:23:55 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Well, if there is a civil war or revolutionary movement in America, it is most likely to come from those arch-conservative gun nuts. Fortunately for the country, the same distrust of authority that makes them so violently disposed also makes them very unlikely to be able organize effectively. Still, they could do a lot of damage.
In a weird way, though, they might just prove the need to reform the Second Amendment. Consider the public reaction should they go on some kind of mass revolt — it would just add fuel to the fire of the movement to abolish firearms.
edited 13th Feb '13 7:28:21 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Krugman is on a roll.
He notes the fundamental divide that we continue to observe in our national political debate. One side bases its views, at least in principle, on facts supported by evidence and investigation. The other ignores and even suppresses facts if they contradict its fixed beliefs.
Our politics are no longer about liberalism and conservatism. They are about reason versus, well, faith.
edited 13th Feb '13 8:16:14 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Nobody can "win" the argument over whether God exists, but the problem with faith-based reasoning comes when it denies even the possibility of disproof. As in, "I just know that Say's Law governs all economics, so I'm going to ignore and/or persecute anyone who says otherwise, despite the mounds of evidence they claim to have proving me wrong."
Or, "I'm going to ignore all the democratic countries who've successfully implemented restrictions on gun ownership and have very low violent death rates because SECOND AMENDMENT FREEDOM AMERICA HOORAH."
edited 13th Feb '13 8:41:49 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"IE even secular/non-religious fanaticism can be as dangerous/volatile (if not more so) as religious fanaticism.
edited 13th Feb '13 8:58:13 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.A Republican came up with this? WE'RE NOT ALONE!
Watch out suckas, Republicans are bringing sensible back. Yeah!
It was an honorWell, if merely being the NRA rises to the level of domestic terrorism, my views parallel theirs at least enough to qualify me and a lot of other people as enemies of the state ... or as something not too far removed from it anyway.
Granted, yours is a minority view, but at this point it's not so minority that it couldn't become truly widespread, and become a major assumption that a non-trivial bloc of decisionmakers and voters bring to public/political discourse. And if that's even a non-trivial possibility, I think it wouldn't be amiss to keep myself very well armed indeed, thankyouverymuch.
edited 13th Feb '13 10:10:10 AM by Jhimmibhob
Let's see. The NRA opposes all attempts to: (a) restrict or regulate gun ownership; (b) find and prosecute people who sell guns to criminals; (c) research causes of violence related to firearms. The NRA also: (a) conspires with Congressional leaders to secretly insert riders neutering gun regulation into unrelated bills; (b) abets and encourages a culture where any opposition to unrestricted gun ownership is met with threats of violence; (c) proposes solutions to gun violence that amount to arming even more people.
What I see here is an organization that is actively seeking to turn the entire country into a Mexican Standoff writ large. So, you will forgive me if I call them just as bad as actual terrorists.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Fighteer, I've been following the gun enthusiasts on this thread and it was my understanding the NRA already agrees on the things you were discussing, what they oppose is the draconian "No gunz EVAR!" rhetoric the politicians trot out to avoid having to fix things like poverty, mental healthcare, and school bullying.
Is this not so?
It was an honorAre we positively sure that we are talking about the NRA or the GOA or particular members/subgroups? A lot of misunderstandings can result from talking about different things at once.
edited 13th Feb '13 10:30:08 AM by SeptimusHeap
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanIt seems to me that whenever there's a shooting, politicians get up in arms about the "vast number of countless" guns, and bemoan the "countless shootings".
According to the stats I've seen the majority of gun violence happens in urban areas where there's severe economic depression. And the big school massacres always seem to involve bullying, or other mental distress.
Politicians will blame movies, video games, rap music, and teh ebil gunz, but never address their dumbass policies that foment such conditions that lead to people getting shot.
edited 13th Feb '13 10:36:51 AM by TheStarshipMaxima
It was an honorWhat I see here is an organization that is actively seeking to turn the entire country into a Mexican Standoff writ large. So, you will forgive me if I call them just as bad as actual terrorists.
Oh, 100% forgiven: don't think of it for a moment. I hope you'll forgive me in turn, though, if I and others then infer that it might not just be hick paranoia to intuit that the chances of eventually being treated like actual terrorists are non-trivial ... and conduct ourselves accordingly.

The best part, and only good part, was Rubio taking a sip halfway through his rebuttal speech.
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.