TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49301: Feb 13th 2013 at 2:54:44 AM

The best part, and only good part, was Rubio taking a sip halfway through his rebuttal speech.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49302: Feb 13th 2013 at 6:33:38 AM

Krugman hit on the fallacy that Republicans continue to spew: that it was government that caused the housing crisis and not deregulation plus free enterprise.

@Devil Take Me: It is BATF's job to be an authority on firearms, just like it is CDC's job to be an authority on health and NASA's job to be an authority on space travel. BATF's rather hilarious lack of competence of late can be laid squarely at the feet of Congress and the White House, who have collectively done their best to strip the agency of its power and authority. It's an eminently fixable problem: increase the hiring cap, let them directly inspect and audit gun dealers, give them authority to track weapons — all the things Congress took away at the behest of the NRA.

Frankly, the NRA is approaching the level of a domestic terrorist group in that their blatant disdain for reality is aiding and abetting all these firearms-related tragedies. They would rather kids die in school massacres than a single restriction, law, or regulation be applied to gun owners.

edited 13th Feb '13 6:58:02 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#49303: Feb 13th 2013 at 7:04:11 AM

That's worthy of a Spock-like raise of an eyebrow, Fighteer. Calling the NRA any form of domestic terrorists is a tad counter-productive.

What do you do when they take you at your word and say "fuck it, why not?" Your rhetoric doesn't have much further to go.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#49304: Feb 13th 2013 at 7:15:43 AM

What do you do when they take you at your word and say "fuck it, why not?" Your rhetoric doesn't have much further to go.

Not much further. If you follow the narrative, you end with the Second American Civil War.

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49305: Feb 13th 2013 at 7:20:00 AM

Which is ironic because it's the NRA's adherents who are the ones threatening armed revolution if anyone so much as thinks about taking their guns away.

When one side's argument is, "Let's hold a national debate about ways to reduce violence, particularly that violence abetted by firearms, given that the United States has the highest rate of firearm deaths per capita of any First World nation and some of the loosest laws and regulations;" and the other side's is, "You can take my guns from my cold, dead hands," it's kind of hard to reach any kind of deal.

Frankly, Tam, nobody has talked about jackbooted thugs marching across America to institute the rule of despotism except for people waving their AR-15's around and threatening to shoot anyone who looks at them funny. And the NRA is vocally on their side, including being the agency behind almost all of the neutering of Federal gun enforcement authority in recent memory.

edited 13th Feb '13 7:23:55 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#49306: Feb 13th 2013 at 7:24:21 AM

Well, I get the feeling that a Second American Civil War will happen within the next thirty years, and almost certainly within this century.

edited 13th Feb '13 7:24:34 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49307: Feb 13th 2013 at 7:27:13 AM

Well, if there is a civil war or revolutionary movement in America, it is most likely to come from those arch-conservative gun nuts. Fortunately for the country, the same distrust of authority that makes them so violently disposed also makes them very unlikely to be able organize effectively. Still, they could do a lot of damage.

In a weird way, though, they might just prove the need to reform the Second Amendment. Consider the public reaction should they go on some kind of mass revolt — it would just add fuel to the fire of the movement to abolish firearms.

edited 13th Feb '13 7:28:21 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49308: Feb 13th 2013 at 8:15:35 AM

Krugman is on a roll. He notes the fundamental divide that we continue to observe in our national political debate. One side bases its views, at least in principle, on facts supported by evidence and investigation. The other ignores and even suppresses facts if they contradict its fixed beliefs.

Our politics are no longer about liberalism and conservatism. They are about reason versus, well, faith.

edited 13th Feb '13 8:16:14 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#49309: Feb 13th 2013 at 8:22:07 AM

[up] Not even proper faith. Like, I believe God exists, but no one can definitively disprove God, so my position isn't based on denial. These people on the other hand are ignoring things, major things, that will bite them really, really hard down the road.

edited 13th Feb '13 8:23:46 AM by Zendervai

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49310: Feb 13th 2013 at 8:38:58 AM

Nobody can "win" the argument over whether God exists, but the problem with faith-based reasoning comes when it denies even the possibility of disproof. As in, "I just know that Say's Law governs all economics, so I'm going to ignore and/or persecute anyone who says otherwise, despite the mounds of evidence they claim to have proving me wrong."

Or, "I'm going to ignore all the democratic countries who've successfully implemented restrictions on gun ownership and have very low violent death rates because SECOND AMENDMENT FREEDOM AMERICA HOORAH."

edited 13th Feb '13 8:41:49 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#49311: Feb 13th 2013 at 8:57:57 AM

IE even secular/non-religious fanaticism can be as dangerous/volatile (if not more so) as religious fanaticism.

edited 13th Feb '13 8:58:13 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#49312: Feb 13th 2013 at 9:48:26 AM

Marco Rubio's water bottle thing was one of the most awkward things I've ever seen. He looked like he was hoping nobody would notice him reaching over, bending down, and staring at the camera just to take a sip of water. So hilarious.

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#49313: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:07:41 AM

In fact, working folks shouldn’t have to wait year after year for the minimum wage to go up while CEO pay has never been higher. So here’s an idea that Governor Romney and I actually agreed on last year: let’s tie the minimum wage to the cost of living, so that it finally becomes a wage you can live on.

A Republican came up with this? WE'RE NOT ALONE!

Watch out suckas, Republicans are bringing sensible back. Yeah!

It was an honor
Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#49314: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:09:26 AM

Well, if merely being the NRA rises to the level of domestic terrorism, my views parallel theirs at least enough to qualify me and a lot of other people as enemies of the state ... or as something not too far removed from it anyway.

Granted, yours is a minority view, but at this point it's not so minority that it couldn't become truly widespread, and become a major assumption that a non-trivial bloc of decisionmakers and voters bring to public/political discourse. And if that's even a non-trivial possibility, I think it wouldn't be amiss to keep myself very well armed indeed, thankyouverymuch.

edited 13th Feb '13 10:10:10 AM by Jhimmibhob

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#49315: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:12:38 AM

Don't hold your breath Starship.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#49316: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:14:20 AM

A Republican didn't come up with that one. Some Republicans agreed with it, (and far more have vehemently opposed), but it's been around a long time.

edited 13th Feb '13 10:16:10 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#49317: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:14:43 AM

Do you guys live to rain on my Republican parades? tongue

edited 13th Feb '13 10:15:19 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49318: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:15:43 AM

Let's see. The NRA opposes all attempts to: (a) restrict or regulate gun ownership; (b) find and prosecute people who sell guns to criminals; (c) research causes of violence related to firearms. The NRA also: (a) conspires with Congressional leaders to secretly insert riders neutering gun regulation into unrelated bills; (b) abets and encourages a culture where any opposition to unrestricted gun ownership is met with threats of violence; (c) proposes solutions to gun violence that amount to arming even more people.

What I see here is an organization that is actively seeking to turn the entire country into a Mexican Standoff writ large. So, you will forgive me if I call them just as bad as actual terrorists.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#49319: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:17:05 AM

Well since the last fully agrreable Republicans were booted out in 1980 by the Reagapocalypse,....yes.

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#49320: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:23:24 AM

[up][up]The last time rhetoric of that nature was used in the United States, someone ended up firing on Fort Sumter in Charlestown Harbor.

Be careful of what you wish for, as you may end up getting it.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#49321: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:27:30 AM

Fighteer, I've been following the gun enthusiasts on this thread and it was my understanding the NRA already agrees on the things you were discussing, what they oppose is the draconian "No gunz EVAR!" rhetoric the politicians trot out to avoid having to fix things like poverty, mental healthcare, and school bullying.

Is this not so?

It was an honor
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#49322: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:29:15 AM

Are we positively sure that we are talking about the NRA or the GOA or particular members/subgroups? A lot of misunderstandings can result from talking about different things at once.

edited 13th Feb '13 10:30:08 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#49323: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:30:30 AM

When has there ever been politicians that do that? Unless you count background checks and closing the gunshow loophole as "no guns evar" I am at a loss as to where this is going on.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#49324: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:36:28 AM

It seems to me that whenever there's a shooting, politicians get up in arms about the "vast number of countless" guns, and bemoan the "countless shootings".

According to the stats I've seen the majority of gun violence happens in urban areas where there's severe economic depression. And the big school massacres always seem to involve bullying, or other mental distress.

Politicians will blame movies, video games, rap music, and teh ebil gunz, but never address their dumbass policies that foment such conditions that lead to people getting shot.

edited 13th Feb '13 10:36:51 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor
Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#49325: Feb 13th 2013 at 10:37:43 AM

Let's see. The NRA opposes all attempts to: (a) restrict or regulate gun ownership; (b) find and prosecute people who sell guns to criminals; (c) research causes of violence related to firearms. The NRA also: (a) conspires with Congressional leaders to secretly insert riders neutering gun regulation into unrelated bills; (b) abets and encourages a culture where any opposition to unrestricted gun ownership is met with threats of violence; (c) proposes solutions to gun violence that amount to arming even more people.

What I see here is an organization that is actively seeking to turn the entire country into a Mexican Standoff writ large. So, you will forgive me if I call them just as bad as actual terrorists.

Oh, 100% forgiven: don't think of it for a moment. I hope you'll forgive me in turn, though, if I and others then infer that it might not just be hick paranoia to intuit that the chances of eventually being treated like actual terrorists are non-trivial ... and conduct ourselves accordingly.


Total posts: 417,856
Top