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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49101: Feb 9th 2013 at 6:40:20 PM

[up][up] My father as well. He had congestive heart failure and emphysema and continued to smoke nearly two packs a day until he died of lung failure after surgery to correct an abdominal aortic aneurysm. I loved him very much, but he killed himself. Slow suicide. I never want to see another human being I love do that.

[up] The world sucks, Serocco. Apparently your zeal for the the rights of terrorists isn't shared by everyone.

edited 9th Feb '13 6:41:02 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49102: Feb 9th 2013 at 6:43:06 PM

On the flipside, my father smoked like, 3 packs a day, and he died of brain cancer-which there hasn't been any scientific correlation between smoking and said-and with miraculously clear lungs.

The doctors had their "o_o" face.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49103: Feb 9th 2013 at 6:44:24 PM

[up][up] The key word is suspected terrorists, Fighteer. I don't blindly trust my government whenever it claims that a newborn infant child is gonna someday pose a threat to the world.

I say that because that's the vibe I'm getting from Afghanistan right now. I know the guys we're training are almost literally backstabbing us, but come on.

edited 9th Feb '13 6:49:56 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#49104: Feb 9th 2013 at 6:53:05 PM

Considering how we recently moved drone strikes to its own thread, I'm wondering if we should have a separate topic for American bilateral diplomacy...

I don't know, is it really a US politics issue, rather than an international-relations one? It's an issue where bipartisan support is more frequent nowadays. It's nowhere as divisive as it is with some domestic issues, or as it was during past wars and Bush presidency.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#49106: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:06:00 PM

Historically, Republicans have aggressively pursued the concentration and acquisition of new power, while Democrats promise reform and then proceed to quietly consolidate that power upon being elected. It's been thus for decades.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49107: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:07:33 PM

It's because the majority of American voters simply don't give a fuck about a bunch of folks off in the Middle East, except when they kill Americans.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49108: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:07:45 PM

[up][up]Eisenhower kept Social Security intact. Yet every other Republican wants it gone. Including the Democrats. Even though Roosevelt made the damn thing.

edited 9th Feb '13 7:09:45 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49109: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:08:45 PM

Ugh, Serocco, do we have to start thumping you for strawmanning? Most Democrats don't want to kill Social Security. There are disagreements about how to "fix" it, if it even needs fixing, but the entitlement-breaking is almost entirely on the Republicans' side.

edited 9th Feb '13 7:09:06 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49110: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:10:46 PM

My view is that, by fix it, they mean slowly cut its funding it until it stops being as effective as it once way.

We already saw that with ACORN, last time around.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#49111: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:13:19 PM

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Let's have some proof the majority, or even a substantial number of democrats want to kill social security.

(Hint, touching social security has proved to be political suicide time and time again.)

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#49112: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:15:42 PM

I don't think many Democrats today would smile at Social Security reform. And as I understand it, Eisenhower's acquisitions of power were more on the global stage. No one held any illusions about the global power of the U.S. by the end of his term. (Ironically, for a guy who warned of the rise of the military-industrial complex...)

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49113: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:16:19 PM

Quote from Obama. "If congressional Republicans refuse to pay America’s bills on time, Social Security checks, and veterans benefits will be delayed. We might not be able to pay our troops, or honor our contracts with small business owners. Food inspectors, air traffic controllers, specialist who track down loose nuclear materials wouldn’t get their paychecks."

That was, I think, at a time where he was calling in favor of Social Security and tried to say "Oy, what the fuck, GOP?"

edited 9th Feb '13 7:17:17 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#49114: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:19:03 PM

[up] Unless I'm severely missing something, he's using that as the standard scaremongering (not without reason) "Voters, please put some pressure on these lunatics so they'll raise the debt ceiling" rhetoric. It doesn't sound to me like he's in favor of cutting any of those things. If anything, he's arguing for preserving them.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#49115: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:20:47 PM

Fire Dog Lake? Seriously?

That was a classic scare quote by Obama. He was attempting to make the Republicans bad (and a task that easy he couldn't fail at even if he wanted to). He was not incorrect in that a total shutdown could threaten SS, but that doesn't mean he feels like threatening SS.

Seriously, SS rollback is the Philosopher's Stone of Republican politics. They've been seeking a way to sell it - as reform, as "more efficient vouchers", as any number of things - to their own base for decades, much less to Democrats and Independents. And they still haven't figured out how to do so in a way that doesn't piss off the seniors.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49116: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:24:28 PM

I put that there so we can be sure that, if Obama cuts Social Security, everyone will know that he was lying through his teeth about appearing to want to protect it.

The Chained CPI deal that he once proposed really makes me doubt his statements about keeping it intact.

edited 9th Feb '13 7:30:17 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#49117: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:30:45 PM

Ahem. Let's look at that article.

It now appears clear that, whatever solutions come out of the fiscal cliff talks, chained consumer price index will be a part of the upcoming deal.
All right, let's follow that link it gives. It goes to an article in Bloomberg that says:
On Christmas, Ruth Marcus wrote an opinion piece for the Washington Post saying we should link Social Security benefits to the chained consumer price index. The piece's headline says this move, which would cause benefits to grow more slowly, is "a cost savings everyone should endorse."
Okay, it's a piece against Chained CPI, and it mentions that some dude in the Washington Post wrote an article in favour of it. I don't see them coming out for that.

Now, back to the original article, it is absolutely correct when it says:

But what's really happening is that the negotiators in Washington want to cut entitlements without appearing to cut entitlements. By doing that they're also going to impact the ability of people to buy all sorts of goods. If chained CPI is enacted as a part of the fiscal cliff deal (and something will be enacted, there's too much political pressure for it not to happen) we'll see a large decline in American's disposable income.
Just like the Bloomberg article says:
I suppose Marcus means that, if Social Security benefits rise with chained CPI, their purchasing power will remain the same from year to year. But their purchasing power won't be the same as it would have been without reform — it will be lower, which is why many people won't endorse this reform.

This is the key point about chained CPI, often glossed over by its advocates. Adopting it is just another way to cut Social Security benefits. So it's only a good idea if cutting Social Security benefits is a good idea.

It's another search for the Philosopher's Stone. But I don't think it'll get anywhere either.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49118: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:33:37 PM

Three different articles, that I found, talk at length about Chained CPI. All with different takes on it, from what I've read.

See if you have a clearer photo of it.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#49119: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:36:58 PM

Slate is against it, National Journal tries to sell it, NY Times is against it. Surprise.

Any Democrats actually in support of it? ("Obama, in his moment of free-fall surrender during the fiscal cliff debates before he realized that the Republican House wouldn't vote in favour of something he offered even if it included having every Democrat lined up against the wall and shot" doesn't count.)

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49120: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:42:05 PM

At the time, Democrats voiced their opposition to it, but none of those included Obama.

edited 9th Feb '13 7:43:41 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#49121: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:48:00 PM

There have been several innocent people released from gitmo. Sheer probability states that some of the people currently being held forever without trial and being tortured are innocent.

Of course once you think of them as evil instead of enemies it's amazing how much easier it is to let that slide.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49122: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:48:56 PM

That guy there speaks the truth.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#49123: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:53:09 PM

[up] Yeah, but it's a strange, fucked-up situation. I doubt they're doing much torturing anymore. (Not much left to spill) but even if you were innocent, after that long in Gitmo, you're going to want revenge. I'm personally torn on the issue, and can't think of any solution that I wholeheartedly agree on.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#49124: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:59:37 PM

The constitution makes no distinction between "citizens" and "non citizens" when it comes to due process. As in, due process is mandatory even for foreigners. Except, due process was not used with Gitmo. Due process was not used with the NDAA.

edited 9th Feb '13 8:02:12 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#49125: Feb 9th 2013 at 8:02:41 PM

Try to think pragmatically, rather than idealistically for a moment. Let's say you were supreme tyrant dictator. Or even president. If you could, what would you do about Gitmo? (And I mean do now, rather than a decade ago.)

edited 9th Feb '13 8:03:20 PM by DrTentacles


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