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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@Sledgesaul: For the umpteenth time, the drones are just the methodology. The fact that there isn't a human being piloting the aircraft from inside it is meaningless from a moral or ethical perspective. It matters only operationally.
What should be concerning Congress is the policy of extrajudicial killing itself, not the means by which the policy is executed.
As for the leaks game, it's exactly that — a game of dodgems played between the administration and the press. There are "official" channels and "unofficial" channels, plus the problem of figuring out which leaks are planned and which are someone with a genuine beef. At a certain point it ceases to matter.
edited 6th Feb '13 6:47:51 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Yes, the fact that Obama is doing a better job of fighting the War on Terror than we did under Bush. That'll really give Congress something meaty to chew on, now won't it?
"Hey, you! Black guy in the White House! Stop doing things the way we want them done! It's really hurting our self-image!"
edited 6th Feb '13 6:49:27 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Bush started two wars. I'm quite sure that his aggregate body count is higher than Obama's. Given 9/11, his civilian body count is higher too. What exactly is your point? Was Obama supposed to be Mister Peace and Love?
I don't like extrajudicial killings either, but if we are going to fight terrorists, we have to fight them. If we aren't, then fine, let's leave. But you can't have it both ways.
edited 6th Feb '13 6:53:39 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Yes and those are official leaks that have been carefully consider and debated on by those in high position. They are not the press secretary deciding to go against procedure and answer a question that he's been ordered not to.
There is a difference between a government leaking something and a governed official leaking something. The first is the government playing the information game and using back channels, the second in someone going on a person crusade against the wishes of their superiors.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranEither the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are bad, or they are not. Either extrajudicial killings are bad, or they are not. Either civilian deaths at the hands of terrorists are bad, or they are not. Either torture is bad, or it is not. By any application of those standards, Bush was worse than Obama.
edited 6th Feb '13 6:57:06 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Yes but it's carefully considered bragging.
I'm not saying all government leaks are right or that all leaks by individual officials are wrong, but an official leaking something related to military intelligence is a big deal and not something to be done lightly.
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He was President when it happened. That gives blaming him for it exactly as much legitimacy as it does to blame Obama for Benghazi.
edited 6th Feb '13 6:58:09 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@Sledgesaul: He can be blamed for not having instituted good enough national security measures to prevent 9/11. It has been brought up several times that the CIA/FBI had had actual warnings about possible terrorist attacks around that time, but some massive bureaucratic flaw or the other caused the higher command echelons to miss the otherwise-obvious red flags.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.![]()
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You do realise that a system of total transparency would render any and all covert operations completely useless. Anything the government is willing to let me know is also something that they are letting their enemies know. Sometimes you need to keep things secret from the enemy, and yes that means keeping them secret from your own people. Our world is so interconnected that anything you or I know is going to be something that terrorists know, that Russia knows, that China knows, that Iran know, that North Korea knows, that everyone knows.
edited 6th Feb '13 7:05:16 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI'm sorry, what? Does your understanding of the world end at the physical borders of the United States, Sledgesaul? I'm not sure what planet you think you're living on, where total government transparency would magically end all global conflicts and stop people from wanting to fight each other.
edited 6th Feb '13 7:08:02 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
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Yes but that becomes a problem when the people you are pissing of are unreasonable assholes who want to blow you up for not being exactly like them. So unless you want the government to cave to everyone and anyone it's going to have enemies, and there is going to be things that need to be kept from those enemies, and thus kept from you.
Edit:
It does, but it only makes some (what amount is debatable) by doing things that we consider bad. It makes others by doing things we consider good.
edited 6th Feb '13 7:10:49 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranYou honestly believe that Iran isn't trying to acquire nuclear weapons, Sledgesaul? And what about North Korea?
edited 6th Feb '13 7:13:50 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"They're not
. Even US Intelligence agrees with me.
North Korea is the ugly stepchild of the world, sulking in shame over how everyone laughs at it and punishing itself when it tries to doubt its competence. It'll commit suicide eventually, while we continue to laugh at it.
edited 6th Feb '13 7:20:38 AM by Sledgesaul

You do realize that the government still leaks information about itself anyway, right?
They're not tried for treason, because they're effectively bragging about whatever they're leaking.