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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#48226: Jan 26th 2013 at 12:08:25 PM

If the Republicans do phase out (as some people in this thread predict), then nobody would be powerful enough to stand up to the Democrats. Then US will become a dominant-party system and it will need to consider this reform sooner or later, because said pressure will happen from inside.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#48227: Jan 26th 2013 at 12:18:14 PM

The US has been a one-party system before (outside Delaware that is),...and nothing to horrible happened there,given how things work,factions from inside will split it eventually and form others. Just like when from Monroe to Jackson,when the Democrats formed.

darksidevoid Anti-Gnosis Weapon from The Frontiers (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Anti-Gnosis Weapon
#48228: Jan 26th 2013 at 12:18:50 PM

[up][up]...No, the Republicans would either "phase out", as you say, or they would collapse and another party which shares many values, but which is more centrist, would emerge in its place. Or the Democratic Party might end up splitting for some reason or another, though that's much more unlikely. Or, the Republican Party will continue as they are like a zombie until a new leader emerges to transform them and lead them out of the wilderness, much like what's said to have happened to the Democrats after Carter.

[up]Exactly. Don't start predicting doomsday, it's far too early and I'm not sufficiently awake or fed yet.

edited 26th Jan '13 12:19:51 PM by darksidevoid

GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#48229: Jan 26th 2013 at 12:21:41 PM

That's because the one party status was ignored and every candidate that wanted to run has run. That's what happened with JQ Adams and Jackson. Normally a party would have some dominance over its candidates through primaries.

I think the primaries nowadays would have more force.

[up]I'm saying that such a transition wouldn't fix the more underlying problems with the system itself. By supporting the two-party system and rejecting multiparty reforms, the Democrats are fueling the partisan gridlock.

edited 26th Jan '13 12:23:22 PM by Trivialis

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#48230: Jan 26th 2013 at 12:27:11 PM

[up][up] They had Tip O'Niell to lead them,...and it's because of him that Reagan didn't cause of twenty-year recession and only caused the one that Bush Sr got blamed for.

edited 26th Jan '13 12:30:36 PM by terlwyth

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#48231: Jan 26th 2013 at 12:56:35 PM

Paul Ryan: Obama 2nd term ‘won’t be pretty’

Senator Harkin, Iowa Democrat, won't seek 6th term in 2014.

So Rockefeller, Chambliss, and Harkin won't be running for reelection.

Arizona Republicans have proposed a bill which mandates a high-school graduation oath of allegiance which usesthe phrase "So Help Me God" (with no alternatives), thus fucking over everyone not a Christian.

Apparently Christianity became the only monotheistic religion.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#48232: Jan 26th 2013 at 12:58:47 PM

[up][up] Tip O'Neal still cooperated with Reagan on a lot of other issues.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#48233: Jan 26th 2013 at 1:01:23 PM

[up][up] Actually, the Abrahamic religions make up the bulk of monotheistic beliefs. I think Sikhs only have one god, but I'm not sure.

Besides, you know they'll pitch a fit if a Muslim student wants to sub out "Allah" for "God", or a Pagan student wants to sub out "Goddess".

edited 26th Jan '13 1:02:31 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#48234: Jan 26th 2013 at 1:10:29 PM

During 1980s the Democrats had Tips O' Neill, Robert Byrd, Mario Cuomo, and Ted Kennedy to lead them.

They basically played damage control throughout most of the decade.

[up] Allah is just "God" in Arabic.

Rupert Murdoch: Keep Piers Morgan in U.S.

By supporting the two-party system and rejecting multiparty reforms, the Democrats are fueling the partisan gridlock.

But by supporting multiparty reforms, the Democrats risk losing power.

Which is why there not gonna be supporting any of those reforms.

Anyway if the Republicans phase out, someone will replace them (I think it'll be the Libertarians). Just like the Republicans replaced the Whigs.

edited 26th Jan '13 1:37:23 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#48235: Jan 26th 2013 at 1:15:58 PM

Man, I wouldn't even participate in an oath to my high school regardless of its content. Outside of its higher-end classes, the place was a detestable shithole.

DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#48236: Jan 26th 2013 at 1:18:30 PM

[up][up] And both Islam and Christianity have roots in Judaism, but that doesn't stop them either.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#48238: Jan 26th 2013 at 1:39:53 PM

@Deviant

Party strength is superfluous if the only reason to maintain is to fight back against Republicans.

A lot of independent voters are tired with the party gridlock in general. If Democrats represented multiparty democracy and the other party didn't, that gives advantage to Democrats. It's a decisive difference. If, however, Democrats are just as stubborn as Republicans in turning down democratic reforms, then independents will be begrudgingly voting for one party. That makes them jump to Republicans whenever an issue attracts them. The party is therefore causing itself problems by trying to keep things together.

edited 26th Jan '13 1:42:16 PM by Trivialis

SecretLink Since: Jul, 2010
#48239: Jan 26th 2013 at 1:49:42 PM

[up][up] aren't they doing that march thing in DC today about abortion?

“ I am not insane… What I am saying is most true and reasonable”
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#48240: Jan 26th 2013 at 1:54:11 PM

[up][up]

Again if the Republican Party collapse a new party would likely rise to take its place. Be it a Third Party (Libertarian, Constitution, Reform, etc) or the Blue Dog Wing of the Democrat Party.

By supporting multi-party reforms the Dems risk giving power to liberal third party groups like the Greens or the Peace and Freedom Party.

The Electoral System isn't helping the situation either.

Sarah Palin has parted ways with Fox News after a three-year run with the network

edited 26th Jan '13 1:58:15 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#48241: Jan 26th 2013 at 1:58:21 PM

So what? A portion of those Democrats will join those parties anyway.

That's why before Republican Party collapses, Democrats need to seize upon this key difference. Maybe that will help make Republicans either collapse or reform even faster.

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#48242: Jan 26th 2013 at 2:16:18 PM

Via The Young Turks, Robrt Reich rips entitlement reform.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#48243: Jan 26th 2013 at 2:23:50 PM

I don't see a lot of mainstream support for third parties right now. Focus is important in delivering political messages; the Democrats are busy enough as it is just holding on to what gains have already been made and making immediately obvious reforms; if they start advocating a multiparty system before the public is ready to support it along with everything else, they'll just look like the scatterbrained idealists the GOP would like everyone to believe they are.

I mean, I strongly support a multiparty system in theory, but circumstantial factors would seem to indicate that this is the wrong time to try for it.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
darksidevoid Anti-Gnosis Weapon from The Frontiers (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Anti-Gnosis Weapon
#48244: Jan 26th 2013 at 2:28:20 PM

[up][up][up]Independents aren't actually independent, you know. There's only a very small number of people, ten to fifteen percent, who qualify as truly undecided. All the rest lean toward one party or another strongly enough not to switch over. That's an empirically verified fact, accepted by the vast majority of Political Scientists.

We already have mechanisms for the creation of third parties; It's just that the third parties we do have are too niche and lack enough popular support, and the nature of our system favors the consolidation of many competing factions into two parties. As a matter of fact, multi-party, proportional representation systems tend toward empowering radical factions. In contrast, our system favors moderation and gradual reform, as the Framers intended - although the GOP leadership is gumming up the gears by treating it like a Parliamentary system, as I mentioned earlier.

The Democratic Party instituting multiparty reforms - if voters would even be willing to accept that, which I highly doubt - would be the equivalent of slitting its own throat, because the Democratic base has historically been much less united than the Republican base. Hence, with the splintering of the Democrats, the Republicans would have no need to reform themselves after all, because they could still manage to win a plurality of the vote. Oops.

And by the way, party strength is far from superfluous, nor is the only reason for having it to push back against another party. The entire idea of having a party in the first place is to get people elected and thereby attempt to pass laws that favor one's ideological bent. Neither the Democratic nor Republican parties exist solely for the purpose of opposing one another, but rather for the sake of pursuing their favored reforms, reforms which are increasingly at odds.

edited 26th Jan '13 2:28:28 PM by darksidevoid

GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.
Lascoden ... from Missouri, USA Since: Nov, 2012
...
#48245: Jan 26th 2013 at 2:32:01 PM

[up]If the Democratic Party has been less united in the past, how is it they've avoided splitting apart like the Republican Party seems to be doing?

boop
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#48246: Jan 26th 2013 at 2:33:41 PM

The best way to introduce a multiparty system is for Canada to annex the United States.tongue

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#48247: Jan 26th 2013 at 2:35:04 PM

Why would Canada want the United States?

darksidevoid Anti-Gnosis Weapon from The Frontiers (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Anti-Gnosis Weapon
#48248: Jan 26th 2013 at 2:36:35 PM

[up][up][up]Because of the aforementioned tendency in our system toward two parties. First-past-the-post inherently discourages the creation of third parties and encourages strategic voting behavior, by which I mean voting for whichever of the two most-likely-to-win parties is closer to your views. AKA, the tendency that multiparty reforms would destroy.

GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#48249: Jan 26th 2013 at 2:39:09 PM

[up]

First-past-the-post inherently discourages the creation of third parties and encourages strategic voting behavior, by which I mean voting for whichever of the two most-likely-to-win parties is closer to your views.

Then how does, Britain for one, have three major parties yet uses FPTP?

Keep Rolling On
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#48250: Jan 26th 2013 at 3:27:47 PM

Why would Canada want the United States?

Well, there's always the possibility of the President selling it to Canada to get money for overpriced point-n-click adventure items.


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