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Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#48126: Jan 25th 2013 at 9:51:38 AM

I don't think that much of anybody wants Iran to have a nuclear weapon, including Russia & China. Paradoxically, one reason for wanting to obtain a nuclear weapon is probably to deter an invasion by the United States. We wouldn't have invaded Iraq if Saddam had his finger on a nuclear retaliation button. All we did in Iraq was create an incentive for every tinpot dictator to get his hands on a deterrent.

edited 25th Jan '13 9:52:19 AM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#48127: Jan 25th 2013 at 9:52:17 AM

[up][up]I assume that the ruling can itself be appealed, right? Seems crazy to let the DC court decide a national issue for once and all.

[up] Well, that is one of the pieces of logic used to justify seeking out nuclear weapons, but you also need a delivery system. I think that possession of a handful of undeliverable weapons wouldn't deter us all that much.

edited 25th Jan '13 9:54:09 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#48128: Jan 25th 2013 at 9:53:35 AM

[up][up][up]...Fuck that is not good. Now the GOP could theoretically grind certain departments to a halt by refusing to confirm anyone to key positions. Which is not what confirmations are meant to do! Goddammit.

edited 25th Jan '13 9:53:48 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#48129: Jan 25th 2013 at 9:58:47 AM

...The thing is, while it's true this is bad for Obama, what happens when we have a Republican crazy in the White House and uses Recess appointments to get through absolutely horrible people who will do horrible things. This sets a precedent that's very good. One person shouldn't have too much power, and recess appointments seem to be just that: too much power.

Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#48130: Jan 25th 2013 at 9:59:50 AM

[up][up][up]It would probably deter us from invading if a dictator informed us that he had his finger on a nuclear device hidden somewhere in his capital city. An invading army gets too close, city goes kaboom.

[up][up] I doubt that the founders had this sort of dirty boxing in mind when they gave the Senate the power to "advise and consent". Although considering the ruling and the precedent this sets, I'm actually surprised in retrospect that Obama was able to get a cabinet appointed.

edited 25th Jan '13 10:00:22 AM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
darksidevoid Anti-Gnosis Weapon from The Frontiers (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Anti-Gnosis Weapon
#48131: Jan 25th 2013 at 10:03:00 AM

@Fighteer: It can be appealed, yeah, but my understanding of the legal situation is that this ruling stands until it's heard by a higher court... and the only higher court is the SCOTUS. Oh boy.

edited 25th Jan '13 10:03:07 AM by darksidevoid

GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#48132: Jan 25th 2013 at 10:11:09 AM

And this also screws over the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Oh freakin'... How much does this burn due to Republican stupidity?

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#48133: Jan 25th 2013 at 10:12:30 AM

With the Iran thing. Would you guys need a full scale invasion? If you just wanted to make a massive hole in Iran's nuclear program could it not be done via air power and CIA/Mossad? Now there would obviously be clashes over the Gulf due to the need to keep the oil flowing, plus an air only campaign would still have a wide variety of risks, but would an actual ground invasion be necessary if you're just looking to keep Iran's nuclear program from advancing?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#48134: Jan 25th 2013 at 10:15:41 AM

Do you really think Iran wouldn't start a ground and naval war in the Gulf if it finds itself under military attack?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#48135: Jan 25th 2013 at 10:17:22 AM

All this complaining about this misses the larger point: This is the sort of thing we wouldn't want our opponents to do. Now there's precedent that means that they CAN'T do that. Sure, this is a problem in the short term, but, in the long term, it isn't anywhere near as bad.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#48136: Jan 25th 2013 at 10:20:59 AM

Yeah, but it also mean the one department Republicans fear most has had all of its work for the last entire year stripped away. This is the bureau meant to stop another banking crisis.

In the longer run this is good, but fucking... I'm hoping this goes back to haunt the Republicans if this cause things to go off the rails. :/ We did not need this garbage.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#48137: Jan 25th 2013 at 10:55:56 AM

Who's bright idea was it to let the Senate have recesses anyway? Shouldn't we be keeping them locked in the building 24/7? [[/half-joking]]

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#48138: Jan 25th 2013 at 11:13:05 AM

Well, whose bright idea was it to suborn the President's power to make recess appointments by having a single Senator show up on the floor once every couple of days?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#48139: Jan 25th 2013 at 11:40:19 AM

This really worries me- sounds like the Republicans did figure out how to destroy Obama's presidency/any of the reformist things done by the NLRB. I can't see how Obama can win on appeal given the loophole that was found.

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#48140: Jan 25th 2013 at 11:41:51 AM

Back in the days before easy travel, members of Congress would stay in Washington and would only go home during the summer recess. These days they can flit back and forth across the country every weekend. Only in Congress do you get a six-figure income plus benefits for a three-day work week.

Congress should just go back to staying in DC, doing their stupid jobs, then go home when they're done screwing the rest of us.

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#48141: Jan 25th 2013 at 11:50:34 AM

[up]Actually people are saying they should spent more time in their constituent states instead of hogging time in DC. It's not because they're not in the capital enough that they're not getting enough done.

@deathpigeon: The problem with the ruling is that recess appointments are explicitly allowed in the constitution. I'll have to double-check on the article, though.

darksidevoid Anti-Gnosis Weapon from The Frontiers (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Anti-Gnosis Weapon
#48142: Jan 25th 2013 at 11:50:56 AM

@Fighteer: I'm not entirely sure when the practice started, or whose idea it was in the 112th Congress. I know at least that Reid held pro forma sessions back in '07 or '08 in an effort to block some recess appointments by Bush, but I'm pretty sure Bush just went ahead and appointed them anyway, and the whole idea of using pro forma sessions to block appointments started earlier than that.

The Justice Department wrote a legal opinion (PDF) supporting the constitutionality of the appointments in question last year, although apparently that's now been shredded by the D.C. Appeals Circuit...

[up]Article II, Section 2:

The President shall have power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

To the "they need to stay in their constituent states more" thing, I'd say yes and no. They need to be more in touch with their constituents, true, but they also need to spend more time legislating and less time fundraising. I mean, just take a look at the House of Representatives calendar (PDF again) for the previous session as an exemplar of the problem. The number of days they're actually allocating for lawmaking is shamefully low ("constituent work week" is mostly code for "fundraising from wealthy donors and lobbyists, and maybe assign one of my staffers to help my actual constituents").

edited 25th Jan '13 12:02:05 PM by darksidevoid

GM: AGOG S4 & F/WC RP; Co-GM: TABA, SOTR, UUA RP; Sub-GM: TTS RP. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#48143: Jan 25th 2013 at 11:51:09 AM

[up][up]Yes- the idea is that "technically", they weren't in recess.

edited 25th Jan '13 11:51:32 AM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#48144: Jan 25th 2013 at 12:31:33 PM

You get into a bit of a constitutional crisis when all legal ways to do a necessary action get obstructed. Not looking forward to the SC trial.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#48145: Jan 25th 2013 at 12:41:39 PM

With that ruling, I guess that means we won't see Kerry, Hagel or Brennan take their positions.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#48146: Jan 25th 2013 at 12:44:24 PM

Why not? Kerry's expected to be confirmed easily since there's no sufficient opposition to block him.

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#48147: Jan 25th 2013 at 12:47:24 PM

Obama picked his newest Chief of Staff - Denis McDonough.

You might recognize him in that White House meeting when they oversaw the operation to kill Osama Bin Laden. He's wearing the light blue shirt, right behind Hillary.

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#48148: Jan 25th 2013 at 1:02:32 PM

Obama's serious face is so serious that it loops around into being funny for me.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#48149: Jan 25th 2013 at 1:15:20 PM

Iraq and Afghanistan have left me with absolutely zero confidence in our postwar nation-building capabilities.

The new Iraqi government is fairly stable (by Middle Eastern standards).

And while I have many qualms with Karzi; progress is (slowly)happening in Afghanistan.

Obama picked his newest Chief of Staff - Denis Mc Donough.

He still needs a new Secretary of Labor, Secretary of Interior, Secretary of Energy, and a new Director for the EPA.

Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) to retire

That was unexpected.

President Obama is likely to announce soon that Sylvia Mathews Burwell (current president of the Wal-Mart Foundation, and former deputy director of the Office of Management and Budget during the Clinton administration) will be his next Budget Director.

Mitt Romney: ‘I’m not going away’

edited 25th Jan '13 1:20:52 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#48150: Jan 25th 2013 at 1:17:07 PM

Is the Wal-Mart Foundation related to the Wal-Mart corporation that runs the retail stores? Because, if so, I don't really want anyone affiliated with that clusterfuck of impoverishment anywhere near government.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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