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johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#48001: Jan 24th 2013 at 7:27:38 AM

[up] I do wish that western hegemony and Islamic jackboots weren't a matter of "to-may-to, to-mah-to."

edited 24th Jan '13 7:28:06 AM by johnnyfog

I'm a skeptical squirrel
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#48002: Jan 24th 2013 at 7:32:47 AM

There are objective reasons to prefer the Western version. For example, our military operates by rules of war that vilify the typical "rape, pillage, and burn" tactics favored historically. I don't get the sense that Islamic nations have really made that leap yet. We try to avoid nerve gassing our own citizens, and don't usually stone women to death for the sin of wanting to go to school, or drive. We also don't pay people to strap bombs to kids.

At no point am I trying to claim that Western culture is Crystal Spires and Togas. We have a lot of problems. But if it comes down to a comparison of "Whose Culture Is Better", or even the Lesser of Two Evils, I'm going to pick my side and stand by it.

edited 24th Jan '13 7:33:48 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#48003: Jan 24th 2013 at 7:38:37 AM

You're American Fighteer??

It was an honor
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#48004: Jan 24th 2013 at 7:39:43 AM

Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, The School of the Americas, drone strikes on weddings; that's what I think of American commitment to the rules of war. It really comes down to whether or not you are more threatened by a concentration of power or multiple small distributions of power. I feel less threatened by a bunch of little guys.

(As for the "pass a nuke to a terrorist group to blow shit up for you" take, they won't do that, because if a non-state affiliated actor detonates a nuclear device, nuclear retribution will follow based on suspicion alone. As in, we think that nuke was funded by Tehran, Tehran gets microwaved. Nobody with access to nukes wants nuclear warfare to become more ambiguous and less clearly-defined. If Iran gets nukes, that will remain the case.)

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#48005: Jan 24th 2013 at 7:57:34 AM

I feel less threatened by a bunch of little guys.

Hang on. I could be misreading this, but what exactly is the improvement in a situation like the Somali pirates but instead of black market assault rifles we have black market multi-megaton warheads?

It was an honor
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#48006: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:08:02 AM

Is this just paranoia and panic or is there a serious risk that this could actually happen.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/24/1488491/how-the-republicans-plan-to-rig-the-next-presidential-race-in-six-pictures/

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#48007: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:08:50 AM

and don't usually stone women to death for the sin of wanting to go to school, or drive.
Uh, I can't think of any Arab or Muslim country/government that does/did that, besides the deposed Taliban regime of Afghanistan.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#48008: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:10:16 AM

[up][up] Colbert did a segment on that, I think. Scary thought, with all the gerrymandering already going on.

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#48009: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:18:18 AM

Considering it's ThinkProgress, what with it's agenda, I'm going to go with paranoia.

It was an honor
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#48010: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:23:46 AM

That's not paranoia; Republicans are actively trying to rig the electoral voting process to give themselves an advantage by establishing proportional voting only in states that went blue in 2012. It's been in the national news and we've discussed it previously in this thread.

As for my nationality, have I given the impression of being anything other than an American? Kind of weird.

As for the rest, I'm not going to play a game of American Exceptionalism. I am going to note that there are no "white" players in this game, so it's a matter of picking your shade of grey.

edited 24th Jan '13 8:24:05 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#48011: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:29:49 AM

Yo, Starship, take a look at this, and call me paranoid. It's why the house is as messed up as it is.

Win, Lose, or Redraw

edited 24th Jan '13 8:31:18 AM by DrTentacles

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#48012: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:40:35 AM

Okay, I may have been wrong about paranoia. I had no idea weirdo ideas like this actually made it to the planning stage. Who comes up with this stuff??

@Fighteer - You didn't. It's just that given what a Euro-socialist you are...*

It was an honor
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#48013: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:41:02 AM

"Of course the Democrats are cheating, so we'll cheat back! What? No we won't change our insane platform that could severely hurt the future of our country, we'll just force our way in and screw everything up for everyone!"

That's what it sounds like to me.

I'm actually kind of worried about this even though I'm Canadian. The way our Prime Minister has been acting, there's a sizable chance some of these incredibly dumb moves could spill over here.

edited 24th Jan '13 8:42:24 AM by Zendervai

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#48014: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:42:41 AM

The Republicans have lost the popular vote repeatedly over the last few elections. Realizing this, they continue to try to find ways to make the popular vote magically not count. It's the tactic of a sore loser.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#48015: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:44:15 AM

Starship, they haven't just made it to the planning stage. They've made it to the execution stage. Gerrymandering is a real issue and it's becoming more and more pronounced in America especially in Republican controlled states.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#48016: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:45:32 AM

Like that incident in... Virginia, was it?

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#48017: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:46:40 AM

This is a party that seems to be trying to drag America, kicking and screaming, back into some twisted corporate dominated version of the 50s.

DrTentacles Cephalopod Lothario from Land of the Deep Ones Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Cephalopod Lothario
#48018: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:47:33 AM

I just wish we lived in an Country where we could have independent boards to draw voting districts, and where those boards wouldn't immediately become partisan hell-holes. I wonder if there is a way to make that work.

Anything has to be better than "winning part gets to determine voting districts," because that leads to "Ok, my party won, so I'll draw the voting districts so next time, I will also win. Therefor, for the election after that, I get to draw the districts again, making us win again." It turns into a massive Unstable Equilibrium where the person in charge makes the rules. I've seen some pretty decent solutions, though. Something like the winning party makes the districts, but then the losing party gets to split/merge/screw with half of the districts. They're more complex, but it would be a lot fairer.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#48019: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:51:23 AM

I'll bring up Switzerland again since it's actually kind of relevant. Switzerland is the only direct democracy in the world, where everyone votes on everything. This means that the government is rather nebulous, it takes forever to decide anything and it's really really easy to twist the vote.

For example, it took the Swiss 10 years to decide whether or not they wanted roundabouts. There was also that 'Minaret Scare' a few years ago where through a fearmongering campaign, the Swiss banned all minarets in the country. Yes, all four minarets. The only reason why Direct Democracy works in Switzerland is because the Swiss actually pay attention to the rules. Okay, they're kind of obsessed with the rules.

I don't know the details about this, but there was a minor scandal about eight years ago where something was passed because they "accidentally" reversed the wording. Like, vote yes to stop this thing no one likes.

Basically, there isn't a very good version of Democracy anywhere in the world, but most of the time it's better than just a straight dictatorship.

edited 24th Jan '13 8:56:02 AM by Zendervai

TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#48020: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:51:39 AM

Starship, they haven't just made it to the planning stage. They've made it to the execution stage. Gerrymandering is a real issue and it's becoming more and more pronounced in America especially in Republican controlled states.

This.....is not good. Is there a reason we can't do like Dr. Tentacles suggests and go with independently demarcated districts?

It was an honor
Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#48021: Jan 24th 2013 at 8:59:00 AM

IIRC, ten or so states already have their district lines drawn by an independent commission (California, Washington, etc). So, we're getting there. Slowly.

edited 24th Jan '13 8:59:24 AM by Blueeyedrat

pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
#48022: Jan 24th 2013 at 9:34:27 AM

This is a party that seems to be trying to drag America, kicking and screaming, back into some twisted corporate dominated version of the 50s.

Start saving bottlecaps now while there's time.

edited 24th Jan '13 9:35:11 AM by pvtnum11

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
TheStarshipMaxima NCC - 1701 Since: Jun, 2009
NCC - 1701
#48023: Jan 24th 2013 at 9:48:02 AM

This is a party that seems to be trying to drag America, kicking and screaming, back into some twisted corporate dominated version of the 50s.

Other than the Cold War, institutionalized racism, institutionalized homophobia, misogyny, and American Exceptionalism....The Fifties weren't all that bad.

It was an honor
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#48024: Jan 24th 2013 at 9:51:09 AM

This.....is not good. Is there a reason we can't do like Dr. Tentacles suggests and go with independently demarcated districts?

Because, as the good doctor said, "non-partisan" organizations in the US inevitably become partisan. Anything that touches US politics becomes partisan.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#48025: Jan 24th 2013 at 9:55:12 AM

[up][up]

Hey, at least everything looked prettier.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

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