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DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#47702: Jan 20th 2013 at 4:48:51 PM

He has to be doing this on purpose. I swear he made that mistake too many times for it to be a coincidence.

edited 20th Jan '13 4:49:14 PM by Kostya

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#47703: Jan 20th 2013 at 4:50:04 PM

That last one... it better get some coverage because I want to see how some of the people who have been vocal up till now respond to it. The implications for the debate are staggering.

If you live in the Northwest I guess. Most of the US is dominated by some form of Protestant and think the Pope is a potential Antichrist, and a hell of a lot of the Catholics around here don't put that much stock in our own hierarchy at the moment.

edited 20th Jan '13 4:50:31 PM by Pykrete

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#47704: Jan 20th 2013 at 5:04:51 PM

The "the Pope is the Antichrist" brand of Protestantism is mostly limited to a certain strain of Republican voter.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#47705: Jan 20th 2013 at 5:28:43 PM

Fair enough. Anglican-style Protestants are less "the Pope is the Antichrist" and more "the Pope is an asshole".

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#47706: Jan 20th 2013 at 5:38:34 PM

The Devil must be really busy. We've got at least four antichrists running around.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#47707: Jan 20th 2013 at 5:38:36 PM

Ah, but hand guns are usually misused by people without CCW licenses. Is there a reason you believe such people to be insane by default?

One issue with regulation, is that it actually has to be enforced just like any other law. And much like speed limits, if there's no threat of enforcement, it's only going to apply when somebody is looking. Remember, the sheer number of guns already existing in public hands is not going to disappear anywhere close to overnight. Based on previous numbers, very very few of those people are going to turn over their guns willingly, and any law which renders ten percent or above of the population criminals is a no go from the beginning.

The main issue with the "vs military" thing has more to do with the fact that trying to take away guns is something the majority (~60%) of the military (paraphrasing Barkey from the gun thread on a poll conducted among the military, can't point you to the post or outside links) would take as an act of tyranny and mutiny on the spot.

That way people can still hunt and defend their home

What about defending themselves out and about? That's what pistols are used for most of the time (except for hobby shooting, which is a perfectly valid use of them, unless you want to declare baseball bats and golf clubs off limits since they contribute to death rates as well?). There is a reliable way of restricting it though, only allow people with a CCW license to get them. Even then though, you're still only going to get new purchases since you have to include a grandfather clause for viability reasons.

Fight smart, not fair.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#47708: Jan 20th 2013 at 5:56:00 PM

The problem with removing guns from circulation is that you cannot arrest a person for breaking a law that didn't exist at the time they had broken it under US Law.

edited 20th Jan '13 5:56:31 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#47709: Jan 20th 2013 at 5:59:02 PM

That, and retroactive punishment aside, the alternative to a grandfather clause is to forcefully enter the houses of people who committed no offense and seize the guns. Which is kinda...massively illegal.

edited 20th Jan '13 6:01:12 PM by Pykrete

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#47710: Jan 20th 2013 at 6:00:46 PM

What Japan did was grandfather all existing gun owners in, but then make it illegal to leave guns to anyone in your will (or inherit them). When a grandfathered gun owner dies, their guns are confiscated.

Again, in America that would just lead to a suspicious number of guns going missing when the government comes to call, but I just thought I'd share it.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#47711: Jan 20th 2013 at 7:48:04 PM

Inauguration 2013: Ralph Nader sees 'political bullshit'

Nader called violent video game creators "electronic child molesters.”

What?

edited 20th Jan '13 7:55:46 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#47712: Jan 20th 2013 at 7:55:21 PM

What.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#47713: Jan 20th 2013 at 7:55:31 PM

I want someone to explain to these people what those letters in the white box mean. "You know how some movies are rated R? Well, the M is roughly equivalent to that."

edited 20th Jan '13 7:56:11 PM by Zendervai

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#47714: Jan 20th 2013 at 8:02:34 PM

[up]I think a lot of them also hate R rated movies and just because a person is 17 that doesn't mean a violent video game couldn't affect them psychologically.

edit: Then again if you're going on a killing spree I think you were a little messed up to start with. The video game just made things worse.

edited 20th Jan '13 8:03:31 PM by Kostya

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#47715: Jan 20th 2013 at 8:04:52 PM

Nader is also partially responsible for Bush's 2000 victory so his opinion shouldn't count anymore.tongue

And Santorum is, as usual, either a liar or an idiot. The dems are moving towards immigration reform (insomuch as they can with the GOP in their way) and they are grabbing up the Hispanic vote in return.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#47716: Jan 20th 2013 at 8:31:55 PM

Senator Rubio rallying conservatives behind comprehensive immigration reform

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#47717: Jan 20th 2013 at 8:35:11 PM

I wish him the best of luck. He is fighting an uphill battle against certain elements of the Republican Party.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47718: Jan 20th 2013 at 9:27:15 PM

Ugh, Nader's statement about videogames is even dumber than usual from politicians his age. For God's sake, that's not what child molestation is. And if you claim a videogame as inspiration for a violent act, that's really not all that different from claiming a movie or a book as inspiration, but we've all seen how banning those things go. We just go looking somewhere else for that media. I'm all for ratings on things so parents can make informed decisions, but if you're claiming it as inspiration for being a douchebag then something was already wrong with you and your situation.

Also I would be careful offering Rubio luck on immigration reform, given what Republican ideas of that have been so far. So far, their suggestions actually reduce the number of green cards given out.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#47719: Jan 20th 2013 at 9:31:08 PM

Most gun regulation in the United States happens at the State level rather than the Federal level. Since there are open borders between states, gun control measures passed by a single state are unlikely to affect gun proliferation, so long as there are plenty of other states out there with looser gun laws.

The exceptions, I guess, would be Alaska and Hawaii, since you have to cross international borders to get to either of them. What are the statistics for those two states?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47720: Jan 20th 2013 at 10:05:33 PM

I would expect Alaska to have lots of guns on account of so much of it being open wilderness. Bears and such, after all.

But anyway, there is a legal way to get rid of lots of guns that's proven fairly successful: Buy back programs. Voluntary, so it's not like it gets the guns out of everyone's homes, or solves the issue of nutcases that hoard, but it's been successful on city levels. Could work on a national level. And keep NRA nuts away; it happened recently that they had a booth near a city buy back program and just proved the case that people can buy guns from completely anonymous people without a background check on the private level.

DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#47721: Jan 20th 2013 at 10:08:12 PM

[up][up] Different ends of the spectrum. Hawaii has incredibly tough gun control laws, with a lower overall violent crime rate than a lot of other states, but a significantly high rate of property crime. Meth and other drugs are a problem.

Alaska has less overall crime, with very lenient gun laws (similar to Vermont). The violent crime is just a little higher than Hawaii, but much lower property and other crimes.

Buyback programs only work if there's a good incentive to do so. A few months ago, Oakland (a notoriously violent city) had a buyback program for guns in exchange for $50 gift cards to walmart. Less than a dozen guns were turned in. They tried again right after Newtown, and got a couple hundred guns in exchange for $100 gift cards (again, this may have been because of Christmas, too). Hard to say if it would actually work on a national level, since, again... millions of guns.

edited 20th Jan '13 10:11:53 PM by DevilTakeMe

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47722: Jan 20th 2013 at 10:15:00 PM

Well, I wouldn't turn in a gun for a Walmart gift card, but that's because I have a beef with Wal Mart and I want them to get as little of my money, or anyone's money, as possible.

BUT, I mention a national level program because they did that Cars for Cash thing, and it appears to have been quite successful. So far all programs relating to guns have been on a far smaller and local level. Presumably a national program has a lot more resources than a city or county does.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#47724: Jan 20th 2013 at 10:38:41 PM

More like your neighbours are too cold to shoot you.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#47725: Jan 20th 2013 at 11:31:48 PM

[up] And too far away.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

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