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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

OhnoaBear I'm back, baby. from Exiting, pursued by a... Since: Jan, 2011
I'm back, baby.
#47226: Jan 15th 2013 at 5:28:45 PM

That's a pointless gesture that I'm sure his constituency will love to pieces.

"The marvel is not that the Bear posts well, but that the Bear posts at all."
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#47227: Jan 15th 2013 at 5:29:06 PM

...WHY?

As in, "Why do you want to sell those?" "Why do you think that you can get away with disobeying federal law?" and I'm sure I can come up with a couple more.

I just don't understand. At all.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#47228: Jan 15th 2013 at 5:31:31 PM

[up] Because lolsecondamendment.

I'm seriously starting to think that putting the right to bear arms in the Constitution was a really big mistake.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#47230: Jan 15th 2013 at 5:41:42 PM

When the Constitution was created, it wasn't a mistake, cause people relied on guns for their livelyhoods, but back then they didn't have automatic or semi-automatic guns, or if they did they were very primative, and automatic guns of any variety have really no place in our society.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#47231: Jan 15th 2013 at 5:56:01 PM

Sandy relief bill will pass.

Eat it, GOP.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#47232: Jan 15th 2013 at 6:01:54 PM

I'm guessing the law is there to try and make a huge stink if a federal assault weapons ban passes. Since it's a good law (specifically, it prevents a bad law from being enforced), I support it.

Fight smart, not fair.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#47233: Jan 15th 2013 at 6:16:38 PM

Didn't Reagan go to a small town in Mississippi, where a couple civil rights workers were killed, and made a speech about states' rights?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47234: Jan 15th 2013 at 6:29:19 PM

@Deboss: Are you talking about the "Firearm Protection Act"? If you are, no it's not a good law. State laws can't nullify federal laws like that, and it's been proposed for absolute bullshit reasons. It won't mean anything in the end, and is politically indefensible no matter how much the right howls about freedom.

It's not like they're out to ban hunting rifles, for God's sake. Hell, we can't even get to hear them in a sensible way until they stop pulling bullshit crap like this and sit down and talk like the fucking adults they're supposed to be.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#47235: Jan 15th 2013 at 6:32:15 PM

[up][up] Yes.

But in fairness, there was a 16 year gap between the murders and the speech.

edited 15th Jan '13 6:32:45 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#47236: Jan 15th 2013 at 6:54:18 PM

There was no reason to go over a town to talk about states rights in a place where they lynched civil rights workers.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#47237: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:05:10 PM

@Drunk Girlfriend: To me, the basic right to defend yourself seems important enough to address. The principle is as sound as freedom of speech. It doesn't mean we can't have regulations, as long as we remember that principle.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47238: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:06:12 PM

Except that he was probably invited to speak. Presidents don't just randomly show up in any place to speak in place. Also, presumably state's rights was important to the people that attended the event, which would be reason enough to have such a meeting or event.

Horrible things happen everywhere, and people have speeches on various topics. Eventually, you're going to have a speech about a subject in a place where it seems inappropriate to some. Personally, I think you're overreaching in your assumptions in this particular matter.

[up]Kind of hard to address the issue when one group is yelling "they're going to steal our guns!" and preparing bills to prevent federal laws from being enacted that one; haven't even been proposed or voted on yet, and two; are actually not going to prevent federal laws from being enforced because the states can't circumvent federal law like that.

edited 15th Jan '13 7:08:01 PM by AceofSpades

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#47239: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:08:58 PM

That's just from principle misuse. It's more of a communication problem.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47240: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:11:29 PM

What the fuck does principle misuse even mean? And the communication problem is that one side refuses TO communicate on the issue, and only paints themselves as the victims.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#47241: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:15:25 PM

I mean that you have to grant that at heart, they're fighting for a basic principle, and I agree that the principle is something important. There are right and wrong approaches to respond to it. People pushing for gun regulations should explain the limits of their measures, and lay out the basis for those regulations that are at a comparable level as the principle of self-defense.

Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#47242: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:51:17 PM

There is one question I want answered by the people who are "pro-gun" in this case:

What is the purpose of an assault weapon or expanded magazines?

Hunting rifles are good for hunting. Handguns and shotguns are good for personal defense.

As far as I know, assault weapons and expanded magazines are only good for efficiently killing groups of people. Why would we want to actively sell them?

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47243: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:59:17 PM

They are explaining themselves, Trivialis. They want to ban things that have no use but to kill large amounts of people, as well as limit the size of magazines because that also helps in killing large amounts of people. They also want things like better health checks, which the Republicans have also proposed, although that's instead of limits on the guns themselves. Democrats also want to do things like limit the private sale because that means anyone can get their hands on a gun without any sort of background check.

And then on the Republican side you have Toth, Alex Jones, and that guy from Tennessee who are putting in bills to arrest FEDERAL AGENTS, threatening to kill people if any limit whatsoever is put on guns, and yelling like maniacs about how we'll apparently have the American Revolution all over again if we put gun restrictions into law. You also get groups standing outside local efforts to buy back guns from the citizenry trying to attract interest away from the local government efforts and proving the point about how private sales without background checks are dangerous.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#47244: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:02:01 PM

I see no purpose for assault weapons (besides fighting people who also have assault weapons, impressing chicks, and fending off zombie hoards).

But I don't see any reason to ban them either, so long as people are willing to go through the necessary checks, waiting periods, and paperwork.

Kind of hard to address the issue when one group is yelling "they're going to steal our guns!"

they want to ban things that have no use but to kill large amounts of people,

Gee, I wonder why there yelling that.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:06:02 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#47245: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:02:01 PM

@Belian

Not so much of a pro-gun person, but this is what I would say in the perspective. If hunting rifles are "good", so-called assault rifles are "better". They're fundamentally the same thing, just with performance differences, much like comparing a Honda Civic to an F1 racecar.

What one can do, the other can do also, with different cost and performance. Therefore, one being good for hunting, and one being "only for killing lots of people", is an arbitrary distinction. So while you can argue that regulations should be roughly in proportion to the weapon quality, outright banning the better weapon doesn't make much sense in principle.

Now for what I personally think: I think that it's possible to have a threshold argument where we establish that a certain weapon performance is the safety limit (much like a speed limit). If we're going to ban assault rifles, we need to guarantee that on the flip side, hunting rifles and shotguns are indeed fully protected by law (2nd amendment), and recognized as part of the natural right of self-defense.

Right now the mindset is that guns are lumped in one group, and all weapons below it are on the other. The dividing line is whether or not it's a firearm, so often the debate gets flanderized as all-or-nothing referendum on guns. What I'm proposing is a shift in the dividing line to separate the dangerous weapons and put the "normal guns" on the other group, alongside miscellaneous weapons.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:06:45 PM by Trivialis

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#47246: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:11:06 PM

nevermind

edited 15th Jan '13 8:39:17 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47247: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:12:45 PM

I for one have heard nothing about banning hunting rifles at all. It's all about assault rifles and magazine limits, both of which are reasonable. The far Right likes to fear monger about anything, and the NRA seems to have dropped sharply in the public opinion.

Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#47248: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:21:58 PM

I did not mention banning them at all in my question. Just not actively selling them [to the general public]. I feel we need some sort of regulation and that banning them altogether would not be the best option. At least, not at this time.

Anyway, I saw something that said Obama will be ready with his take on what can be done about gun assault weapon control (might as well be specific) tomorrow. Want to put this on hold until we see just how strict this policy/these ideas are?

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#47249: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:23:01 PM

...

edited 15th Jan '13 8:39:38 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
DevilTakeMe Coin Operator from Wild Wasteland Since: Jan, 2010
Coin Operator
#47250: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:26:12 PM

"Assault weapon" is still being used arbitrarily. There's still no big difference between one and another aside from ergonomic features.

People like trying to compare guns to cars, with the above F1 race car and a Honda Civic comparison. Well, the thing is, you an make a Honda Civic look like an F1 race car by changing the body style, putting a spoiler on and racing style seats, but you're still missing the key components that would make it perform like an actual racecar - the internal configuration like the engine and so forth.

The same is true for guns. The big thing is that guns like the AR-15 look like their military counterparts, but don't actually do what the military M-16 or M-4 does and fire in burst-fire or machine gun style.

Glove and Boots is good for Blog!

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