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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#47176: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:58:31 AM

Well, who would you replace them with? And don't start the whole "America blows up funerals" shit. Both Shia and Sunni terrorists blow up funeral parties belonging to the opposite factions on a regular basis. Go on pilgrimage as a Shia in Pakistan, get a free suicide bomb attack as a bonus extra.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#47177: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:58:45 AM

@Baff: If you want to put it in those terms, it's Realpolitik and nations that don't bully others get bullied in turn. It's clear that you have a principled stand on these issues, but the fact is that the things you want America to do are just not in the cards right now. We can't even get fair taxation or universal healthcare, we can't agree on fundamental economic principles, half of Congress is busy playing a game of "I'll hold my breath until I turn blue and die", our choices of President are between moderate conservative and "Oh my god is he even in the 19th century?", and half of us believe in Creationism.

I may be an idealist but I'm also realistic. We can't wave a magic wand and fix us. Meanwhile, the world happens. Ignoring it doesn't help.

edited 15th Jan '13 7:59:37 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#47178: Jan 15th 2013 at 7:59:17 AM

[up][up]

American is just like them, terroristic.


But to change the topic since we´ve already been trough this, I will reintroduce this topic I posted that was deleted.

Yet another example of the United States being a beacon of morality and Human rights:

Aaron Swartz, as you might have already heard, killed himself a couple days ago.

Now, before going on to the details you might wonder who was the Aaron Swartz?

as states in his Wikipedia webpage he "Co Founder of reddit and demand progress, and previous cofounder of the Change campaign Committee. He was also technical director of Open Library.2"

His crime? He downloaded academic papers from JSTORE over his personal position that it should be the authors and not the publishers who should be compensated.

The response? The government threw the book at him. Charge him with a million dollar fine and 50 years in jail, for violating terms of agreement.

This in continuation of a systematic practice within the United States government that seems to equate hackers with terrorists, and online activists with hackers.

What is the message? If you are a programmer and you don't work for a multi billion dollar dotcom but for open source or truly leftist causes (not you timid garden variety liberalism) “We will lock you in a dark cell and throw away the key the first chance we get to do so”.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:01:45 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#47179: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:00:49 AM

Yes, that. He violated the law, got prosecuted for it, and committed suicide. Anonymous then made a big stink over it, especially given the irony that right before he killed himself, the papers were released for free.

The whole issue is so damn infantile. Frankly, though, if you go up against The Man, you have to expect the consequences and be willing to face them. "Officer, I am taking a principled stand that speed limits are immoral." "That's fine, son, but I'm still writing you this ticket."

edited 15th Jan '13 8:02:15 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#47180: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:01:28 AM

[up]

...

you really need to read some more you know?

If it where China or Pakistan you would be screaming bloody murder wouldnt you? You are very heavily biased I can see.

He wasnt even going against the men. He was just an abstract treat because he downloaded some information he wasnt allowed to download at work (he didnt hack to get it).

And btw why didnt they let me do a thread about this issue? If this had happened in China I am sure there wouldnt have been a problem.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:04:12 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#47181: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:01:37 AM

TAM: I'm serious about the funeral bombing. We actually do that with our drones.

And no, he did not violate the law. He had a legal right to do that.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:04:08 AM by Sledgesaul

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#47182: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:03:46 AM

I think Baff is trying to focus on the unwarranted Disproportionateness of the punishment here.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#47183: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:04:59 AM

[up]

Indeed. You know how much you get for punching the president in the United States in the face? 10 years.

And how much you get for violating terms of service agreement, 50 years.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#47184: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:06:08 AM

[up] He's not exaggerating. You actually get less time if you're an affiliate of Al-Qaeda, than you would if you violated copyright (when it wasn't even a violation, mind you).

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#47185: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:06:29 AM

I'll admit that's kind of ridiculous. The driving issue here is corporate influence in politics, on both sides of the political fence.

I could have sworn we had a thread on copyright issues, though.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#47186: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:07:22 AM

Also didn't the suing party with Aaron (the people he downloaded all the articles from) wanted the case to be dropped? Honestly, of what I've noticed, the DOJ has a really really bad habit of engaging in Scorched Earth court cases, even when everyone else not the DOJ has gone "Stop already".

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#47187: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:08:41 AM

[up] Yes, actually. The "victims" themselves wanted the case dropped.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#47188: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:10:31 AM

I'll concede on that one. It's ridiculous and tragic. Unfortunately, right now we probably have corporate copyright enforcers cheering the man's death.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#47189: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:12:32 AM

I propose no more copyright. No more private property.

It solves a lot of problems, but of course, it won't happen unless the fossils in the government die out.

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#47190: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:14:20 AM

[up]

no more private property?

I think that would be... impossible and impractical... to be honest.

Reuducing copyrights A LOOOOTTTTTT yea. I am fully behind that idea.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:14:49 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#47191: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:14:42 AM

[up][up]Now let's be fair here. We could at least allow individuals (i.e. not "corporate person") to retain some measure of copyright.

[up]I believe he only means "no private intellectual property" and the like, not "no private property of any kind".

edited 15th Jan '13 8:15:22 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#47192: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:15:12 AM

[up]

just make them last 10 years. Or 20 you know? Like it used to be.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:15:28 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#47193: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:15:54 AM

[up][up][up][up]Please, that won`t change unless human nature shifts significantly. Trying to abolish private poverty entirely, even if you think its a good thing, is so futile that its pointless to bring up.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:16:59 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#47194: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:17:33 AM

There are a number of issues to be dealt with, and again this isn't a topic for a general politics thread. I'd say some combination of removing the ability of corporations to own patents and/or copyrights (they would have to license them from the actual holders), a reduction in copyright terms, and some sort of universal licensing mechanism would be useful. But you have some of the most monied interests in the world in stark opposition to these things, so good luck changing them.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#47195: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:19:27 AM

@Baff: No private property is certainly conceivable. All it requires is communal control of the means of production.

Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#47196: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:20:20 AM

No, I meant it. Remove the very concept of private property, and copyright will follow suit.

You can have privacy, but when you can order someones' arrest just because they happened to sneeze on your table, you need to stop.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:22:19 AM by Sledgesaul

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Sledgesaul Since: Oct, 2011
#47198: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:23:04 AM

Here's one - removing Buckley v Valeo and Citizens United.

edited 15th Jan '13 8:31:41 AM by Sledgesaul

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#47199: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:57:39 AM

besides this belongs to the general economics thread (the whole issue about private property).

As for copyright we also have a thread for it now that I remember

[1]

edited 15th Jan '13 8:58:20 AM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#47200: Jan 15th 2013 at 8:59:47 AM

General Economics Thread, by the way.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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