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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
scratching at .8, just hopin'
Yes, I'm fondly remembering all the anti-torture, pro-human rights fervor that raged during the Bush administration... oh wait.
edited 11th Jan '13 11:45:46 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
Or the Clinton Administration, or the Bush Sr. Administration, or the Reagan Administration...
Of course we should fix it. However, I see awfully few people in government, on either side of the party divide, making any serious move to rein in those activities. If I'm presented with the opportunity to vote for a candidate who espouses the restoration of Fourth Amendment rights and the elimination of torture, means it, and also happens to be a supporter of Keynesian economics, gay rights, consumer rights, climate science, and so forth... of course they get my vote.
So far it hasn't really been my privilege to do that, so I have to work with what we've got.
edited 11th Jan '13 11:51:41 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"The "means it" part is the most problematic: How do you determine that during the voting stage, given that practically every known politician can never be relied upon to actually seek all of his campaign promises?
edited 11th Jan '13 12:18:54 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.Well, Obama claimed to be opposed to torture and in favor of Fourth Amendment rights when he was running for office. Then he had his first post-election national security briefing... and totally shut up about it.
My best guess is that it scared him shitless to find out what's actually going on out there. Given the pervasive influence of the national security and military apparatus of the country, I wonder if there's a way that anyone can go into a leadership role and not get "captured by the system".
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@ Taoist:
...or the Eisenhower Administration?
Then again, if the US can't directly do something, they can ask someone else to do it for them that can...
Keep Rolling OnSadly, such is the nature of power.
California Governor Jerry Brown projects budget surplus
. Commentary:
edited 11th Jan '13 3:37:29 PM by RadicalTaoist
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.Destroying the system seems like a lot of effort when a lot can be done through bypassing and ignoring it. Take the Occupy Our Homes movements or labour unions. They didn't have to destroy shit. Arguably they didn't do enough, but hey, "enough" is for suckers.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.![]()
Ahaaahahahahahah....no.
Destroying the system does just that. Destroy the system. It's the lazy, stupid way to fix stuff. It's a recipe for "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
The reason why democracy, at least American democracy was invented was so we could change the system without violent revolution. So we could learn from the mistakes of the past, and improve on that. And I think, for the most part, it's succeeded. Yes, we've screwed up. We've screwed up a lot. But the fact that we've been able to make progress without violent, bloody revolution speaks for itself.
"Not trusting politicians" is just as lazy. It's the argument of the people who say "Well, I can't have what I want now/I can't have a perfect solution now, so why bother?" Our entire government is based on having some level of faith in politicians. Just deciding all politicians are corrupt is a self-fulfilling policy. It's a way to feel good about yourself for being above it all. What you need to do is put effort in keeping politicians honest.
I loathe people who say "Well, the system isn't perfect, so we just have to tear it down, and start again." Yes, the system may be flawed, but everything else is. It's still worth saving. It's still worth improving on. The main reason we're in the mess we are today is that so many people have given up, and decided to let the people who do actually make a fuss, and are loud, and put pressure on politicians run the show. Apathy, and Perfect Solution Fallacy solves nothing.
edited 11th Jan '13 4:00:26 PM by DrTentacles
I dare you to say that to the children we orphaned, the wives and husbands we've widowed, through the use of drone strikes.
Speaking of drones, the "Disposition Matrix" isn't stopping anytime soon. It's designed to keep moving forever. None of us can change that. None of the politicians will change that. None of the defense contractors want to change that.
edited 11th Jan '13 4:03:24 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.I wish you stop going back to drones Serocco. It is becoming Godwin's Law with you.
I think it we started apologizing for the wrong we cause. Do we start asking about the wrongs others have cause. The only thing we can do is try our best not to mess up worst than before and keep moving forward.
The Reaper Games starts anew.![]()
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I would.
You want to know why? Because I believe in America, still.
I believe that we can make a difference. It might not be as fast as you want, but changing a society isn't fast. It takes effort. I'm sorry if you're not willing to put that in.
You want to make a difference? Work within the system. Get local officials elected that you, if not like, accept. Slowly, gradually, the climate will shift. But if you just throw a tantrum, and disown the system *nothing will change.* Society will continue to be dominated by the people willing to put in the effort.
All societies have flaws. Ours doesn't have any more than most nations. Less, in fact. Tell me, is there a place on Earth that you think is honestly, unequivocably *better* than America?
edited 11th Jan '13 4:14:34 PM by DrTentacles
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So is saying that the Police are evil. I mean you can go on saying Fuck the police, Fuck the police, but you don't know what they go through. You only pick or chose what makes you right. The world is not that Black and White and by pretending it is you cause more harm than good.
By saying that you have no intention to change anything.
edited 11th Jan '13 4:13:54 PM by theweirdKiddokun
The Reaper Games starts anew.I'm not saying stage a violent revolution. That means "let's eradicate all that's been done."
I'm saying eradicate the way things are run. Get rid of the bureaucracy. Find a way to get rid of money's influence. Shut down some of the government agencies, like Homeland Security. Ban lobbying. Ban campaign donations or something.
It's a machine I sure as hell don't want to become part of. Guys like Obama are a sure-fire example of how "change you can believe in" morphed into "chains we can believe in."
edited 11th Jan '13 4:20:48 PM by Serocco
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.Serocco you seem to have this strange idea that you can just completely divorce yourself from "the machine." Unfortunately you can't. I'm sorry, but you can't unless you become a hermit or something. Protesting things is all well and good and can get ideas out there but unless you elect people into the system that are willing to take those ideas and put them into action you're just going to be a person standing on the street decrying the government. The only other way I can think of is by staging a revolution and if you are sincerely advocating that then I'm sorry but that is absurd. Can you imagine the chaos we'd have, not just in the US but in the entire world, if the US government was suddenly replaced? No, it would cause far more suffering than you're trying to prevent and it would be very easy for a dictator to take over.
