TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46476: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:25:19 PM

[up][up]

I just say its more humane to give them incentives to go back home on their own than to force them to go back by... well force.

I would also point out that the United Nations Universal Charter of Human Rights grants people the right to freely move among nations.

Or that the United States replced slavery with cheap illigal immigrant work and that its economy would collapse if it wherent for said cheap labour.

So I think you are not really understanding the discussion we have been having on the issue.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#46477: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:25:59 PM

The responsibility of the executive is to uphold the laws. Until Congress changes the laws to make them more tolerant (not likely) Obama's duty as the executive is to continue to uphold those laws, which in this case means deporting illegal immigrants.

Edit: Are you referring to Article 13? Because if so, you're mistaken.

edited 6th Jan '13 12:29:20 PM by Ultrayellow

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46478: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:28:03 PM

[up]

Its his responsability. But In Real Life we all know the executive decides what to enforce and what not to enforce.

So lets not pretend Obama hasnt agressively followed a deportation agenda he campaigned against.

Didnt he choose not to enforce DOMA?

edited 6th Jan '13 12:29:16 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#46479: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:31:38 PM

No.

He said he thought it was unconstitutional and wouldn't defend it, but continues to enforce it.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46480: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:31:57 PM

Eh, executive branch is more complicated than that.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#46481: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:32:38 PM

@Baff: I dont think you understand what Unemployed with no ability to become employed means. ' Iit means likely also ineligible for any government benefits like food stamps or welfare. It means no money at all. it means "good luck feeding you and your family let alone hiking possibly from halfway across the US back to mexico without dying"

edited 6th Jan '13 12:32:49 PM by Midgetsnowman

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46482: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:38:18 PM

[up]

I understand what it means.

[up][up][up]

It seems you have a point. Executive enforcement of laws seems to be different that they way I had understood. I certainly need to research more the topic.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#46483: Jan 6th 2013 at 12:45:41 PM

That said, I agree with you that Obama can and should be more assertive on the immigration issue. Maybe now that the fiscal cliff negotiations are over, we'll see more of that.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#46484: Jan 6th 2013 at 1:02:15 PM

Meh,I'm unsympathetic on the deportation issue.

We have laws that they break, so they should expect to be punished.

I personally don't care whether they find that to be humane or not, it they guidelines we've always had. Get here legally or get kicked out.

I would also point out that the United Nations Universal Charter of Human Rights grants people the right to freely move among nations.

This just proves how little anyone cares about the UN. That and the fact that and most countries would be guilty if it was enforced.

Mitch McConnell draws Republican line in the sand on tax increases

edited 6th Jan '13 5:39:12 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46485: Jan 6th 2013 at 1:05:41 PM

IMO, laws are or are not a good idea. Saying "they broke the law ergo they should be punished" is a weird place to go in my mind.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#46486: Jan 6th 2013 at 1:07:22 PM

[up]

Well I think the law is a good idea.

Granted I think things like Arizona's SB 1070 are taking it to far, and Immigration Court could stand to be reformed.

edited 6th Jan '13 1:12:02 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#46487: Jan 6th 2013 at 1:12:47 PM

Mc Connell seems to be the savviest Congressional Republican. He was the one who did the best out of the fiscal cliff negotiations, and I expect him to come out a winner during the debt ceiling negotiations too. The House Republicans are idiots.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#46488: Jan 6th 2013 at 1:16:13 PM

Speaking of the House Republicans:

Boehner Coup Attempt Larger Than First Thought

A concerted effort to unseat Speaker John A. Boehner was under way the day of his re-election to the position, but most participants called it off 30 minutes before the House floor vote, CQ Roll Call has learned.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Bluesqueak Since: Jan, 2010
#46489: Jan 6th 2013 at 1:22:56 PM

Baff, Article 13 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights actually says:

Article 13.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

It says nothing about your right to enter a particular country. It says no country can prevent you leaving that country, and your country of citizenship may not stop you returning there.

It ain't over 'till the ring hits the lava.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#46492: Jan 6th 2013 at 6:31:41 PM

[up][up]I'm with Carville on this one, the conspiracy theories have gone past the point of absurdity.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ultrayellow Unchanging Avatar. Since: Dec, 2010
Unchanging Avatar.
#46493: Jan 6th 2013 at 6:40:25 PM

I agree, although choosing "inhumane" seems a little odd.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#46494: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:27:45 PM

Laws can be inhumane. Making applicants for immigration wait years and years in a drug-addled hellhole, then making their families wait most of their adult lives to come with them is one of the ones I'd gladly call inhumane.

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#46495: Jan 6th 2013 at 9:29:39 PM

[up]

By 'drug-addled hellhole' are you referring to Mexico?

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#46497: Jan 7th 2013 at 6:55:01 AM

[up]

Wonder why is that... which country could be responsible?

Oh...there I go again.

Poor Mexico, so far away from God, so near the United States.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#46498: Jan 7th 2013 at 6:56:25 AM

Interesting disagreement between two columnists. Maureen Dowd says that Obama is lucky to have Biden, who can wheel and deal while Barack remains obsessed with keeping above the fray. Charles Pierce thinks that's BS. I think he's got a point, as the President could never wheel and deal well enough to convince crazy Tea Partiers who won their elections by appealing to birthers and militiamen. Your thoughts, guys?

edited 7th Jan '13 6:58:45 AM by RadicalTaoist

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#46499: Jan 7th 2013 at 6:59:45 AM

[up][up][up]Hell-holes can have surprising amounts of heaven in them. <shrugs> Just saying... as somebody who lived in a Third World country as a child.

edited 7th Jan '13 7:00:14 AM by Euodiachloris

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#46500: Jan 7th 2013 at 7:05:45 AM

Pobreza sin berguenza es posible. (Poverty without shame is possible.)

Of course, it's easier when the superpower next door isn't giving the most violent and repressive organized crime syndicates imaginable the opportunity to make buckets of money and take over your country.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Total posts: 417,856
Top